Wednesday, March 18th, 1981

Interview with Mrs. Ybor

at Wisdom's Goldenrod, Hector, NY

March 18, 1981

TOPIC: Mrs. Ybor Interview

SUBJECT: Mystical Experience

CONTENTS:

She is Ramdas for a couple of hours

Loss of mind episode

She is Jivanmukti for a day; unable to think

Experiences of overwhelming, sometimes cruel light

Sees herself in golden armor vanquishing another armored figure

Pyramid vision: fire at base connecting earthly and celestial fire

Becoming a star, unable to rid herself of light

Seeing herself (body) as pile of dirt, heap of ashes (five heaps)

Sees golden Om

Sees Swastika; forefathers put it on Runic stone; represents cosmic gyration bringing universe into being

She is both turning and still; in and out of the cosmic circuit

Ceiling-covering zodiac with animal squares, notable pelican

Cosmic clock and man from floor to ceiling

Astral visions: 15th century figures; Saint Simon; Napoleon and libraries with beautiful manuscripts

Hearing voice saying "You are the truth, you are the wisdom"; communication from Intellectual-Principle

Watching world formation from clear sky to solidified layers; desire to remain with pure Mind rather than manifest world

Sees ring of Odin spiraling up to join ring of necessity; spindle of necessity

Nibelung ring

Realization that myths record mystical experiences

She got a third eye

Day before heart attack sees a tiger jumping from the periphery of a circle to its center; bad sign

Hospital experience: visions of falling, bleeding, smashed crystal heart; sees blood everywhere; Pallas Athena comes with small man in black at her feet; she survives

Sees a scarab beetle with red squares on its back; blood and scarab represent rebirth

Maharishi, Plotinus, Shankaracharya all have come to her

Vision of golden/yellow roses followed by physical roses from Lauren; vision of white rose and lotus

Spends most of her time in the transcendental world; feels at home there

Recent feeling of needing to share truth and happiness

Deity working on body, causing trembling

Pain in feet when in trance; soul leaving the body

Feeling divine spirit invading body

Daily crucifixion: physical and spiritual ordeals

She doesn't like the word 'lucky,' she has worked for it; no luck, karma

Preference for unembodied experience due to medical issues

Eros comes and gives her courage; comes from behind

BOOKS READ FROM OR REFERENCED:

• Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages

NOTES:

• AD comments in the 1/30/82 Alchemy class after playing a tape of Mrs. Ybor talking about some of her mystical experiences: "These tapes I'm preserving, I'm going to edit them, I'm going to edit everything– all my comments I'm going to edit out. But I want to preserve the tapes for the library. It's an actual living experience and they deserve to be taped. I will edit out all my comments because very often, like I said, I had to say things, they were like medicinal lies not to discourage her, to make her feel she was getting closer and closer, you know. So I had to do that but now she understands these things so–" It appears that this editing never took place.

• Biographical sketch: Mrs. Ybor was born to a successful shipping magnate in Oslo, Norway, in the very late nineteenth century or the early twentieth century. As a young person, she skied in the mountains of Norway—no trails in those days—so imagine how beautiful it was! She said that it was while skiing alone in the mountains that she had her first mystical experiences—great exalted states. She married Edward R. Martinez Ybor, an heir to the founder of Ybor City near Tampa, Florida, and at the outbreak of the Second World War, they relocated to Ithaca, NY, because Cornell University had the largest collection of ancient Norse literature in North America, which she had a deep interest in. When Mrs. Ybor lost her beloved husband, she experienced such deep grief that she was inwardly catapulted into profound mystical states. Anna Prim introduced her to Anthony Damiani, so he could help her understand these experiences. She later sold her home in Ithaca, and at Anthony's request, Andrew Holmes designed, and many in the Wisdom's Goldenrod community helped build, a house for her on the grounds of Wisdom's Goldenrod. Once she moved in, she was able to have significantly more personal time with Anthony; they often met daily. Her mystical experiences continued through the years, almost until the time of her death. Anthony thought it was important that there be a record of her experiences to share with his students, so he taped some interviews with her in which he tried to help her understand more philosophically what she was experiencing.

TRANSCRIBED Verbatim by LCB, IT 2025. Archival verbatim transcript – V11a.

AUDIO FILES: 1981 0318a.

1981 03/18 INTERVIEW at Wisdom's Goldenrod

Mrs. Ybor Interview; Mystical Experience

[Audio File 1981 0318a Begins]

(In the cottage with Anthony, Mrs. Ybor, and a group of students.)

S: [one word inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, many times I've increased. Oh yeah, oh, I had-- oh, I was-- You know Ramdas? [Note: 1884-1963, Indian saint, philosopher, philanthropist, pilgrim.] I was Ramdas for one hour.

AD (simultaneously): Two hours, (yeah), right?

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Yeah, two hours. I was just crazy happy. Just, there's no other words. I couldn't stop it, I was so happy! (laughter) I just felt insane! I couldn't stop being happy, and it was so (powerful)! (laughter) I'm just so happy, so happy, and I just repeat "I'm happy, I'm happy!" And I just went up for two hours. And then finally, I could get to the phone Master, "I've gone insane Master, I'm insane, come!" (laughter, AD laughing) [few words inaudible] And then what he said on the phone--you're lucky you got out of it. Ramdas never (gotten this). (laughter)

AD: You see what Ramdas does, he keeps rocking himself.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh yes, that I had. Oh-- oh after that? Well yes, when he came, I was still rocking myself. I was so happy I was just-- and that's where I found Ramdas also. (laughter) Well that was the day I called up Andrew [student of Anthony]. He wasn't there in (the) [one word inaudible] and I was desperate. I couldn't stop rocking myself. (laughter) And I-- and I asked Andrew if he had seen, the Center hadn't seen him or-- and Andrew hadn't seen him. And I kept rocking myself. (laughter) I think we finally (just--) And I always tell you when I'm with all the-- You seem always to be there except when I need you. (laughter)

S (amidst laughter, faint): Well yeah, because--

Mrs. Ybor: Say I drink and you-- (more laughter) Always but except when I need you. Well, ok.

AD: Well you can always find me at 3:00 AM in the cottage. (some laughter) Tell them about the time when you thought you lost your mind.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, well that was terrible.

AD (simultaneously): Like everything was very good. (laughter) This is what you wanted. But, you said you didn't care for it. (laughter)

Mrs. Ybor: Oh. Yes, he said that (over) [couple words inaudible] That was a empty black moment. I really lost my mind, I-- I was a woman who lost my-- And I had a very charitable-- uncharitable soul here at the Center. I said I needed my guru. So they say, "You want me to call up?" "Yes, please, please." But that uncharitable boy did not call up. And I was sitting on a chair. I think I got up. I had lost my mind. And-- and finally Carol [student of Anthony living at the Center at the time], I called up Carol--"Your guru doesn't come." Then Carol-- and-- and then he (said--) and you told me, "Well, you have to give up the mind."

AD: You might as well enjoy it while you don't have it. It lasted for an hour. Well it could be frightening, sure.

Mrs. Ybor: That was frightening. And also when I went to [one word inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): But then there's a (shape). But then the second time, you started enjoying it.

Mrs. Ybor: [one/two words inaudible] they might know. Oh, I was Jivanmukti [Sanskrit term meaning "liberated while living"] for one day. Oh, that is terror. I couldn't think! (laughter) [few words inaudible] and there I can't think! You're a Jivanmukti there. I can't think, I--

S: Ok.

S: That--

Mrs. Ybor: "Don't leave me," I said, "Stay here, I'll come." But, that was for one day.

AD: Well, that's a beginning.

Mrs. Ybor: Next day the first thing I thought (of/was) having my coffee. And then I got my mind back when I think of coffee. (some laughter)

AD: PB has his tea four or five times a day. That won't-- that doesn't interfere with being a Jivanmukti. Jivanmuktis eat, sleep, [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Oh.] enjoy coffee, and eat.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): I doubt it.

S: Yeah.

AD: Oh sure.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Oh. The mind is completely still.

AD: That's alright, the body vasanas go on.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): You can't even drink tea. I mean--

AD (simultaneously): The body goes-- the body goes on.

Mrs. Ybor: No but you can't drink coffee when you can't think of coffee.

AD: Well look, in that case you like water? (laughter) But it's not true. The fact is, I get up in the morning, I have no thoughts, but I go to the teapot and I make coffee, [S: Forgive me.] and I drink coffee.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): (But you go) to your teapot, (I drink) coffee. See, the mind is gone. (laughter) Teapot to make coffee. (laughter)

AD: What I'm saying is I can make the coffee and drink the coffee without thinking about the coffee.

Mrs. Ybor: Think about tea. (laughter) That is-- No I've gone through terrible, terrible-- it's all madness really. I'll go mad, as did [one word inaudible] And the mind. [one word inaudible] tries to (mention) it. Especially with that light, that light has been very cruel to me. That light has been cruel. I go-- Well, David [student of Anthony living at the Center at the time] can testify, I've gone mad, mad with light, I couldn't get rid of the light. And it's piercing light. Goes right through me, it wants to kill me.

AD: Well that's the lower light, that's the one we want to stay away from.

Mrs. Ybor: But I can't stay away from it, even, you see, I can't stand for any light without-- Well now, I'm on the safe side so I'm-- I'm not worried anymore. I'm not worried. And, also, what-- when you also said we are-- you made it. What happened then? Oh yes, well, I-- I have a-- I have a vision. I see myself in a golden armor and with a sword and a fellow in front also in armor, but I vanquished him. And he was in armor but I was in a golden armor. And-- and I told that to you that I-- I saw him in a golden armor and that I vanquished another man in an armor. He said, "Hooray, you made it. You won."

AD: Well we won't talk about that in public now.

Mrs. Ybor: No.

AD: No. Tell them about the very beautiful--

Mrs. Ybor: I was very proud to be (laughter) in a golden armor and a suit killing a man.

AD: Yeah but let them fight their own battles. Uh, tell 'em about the one where you were told that you were the truth. Remember that quote? You are the truth.

Mrs. Ybor (faint): [one/two words inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): And-- Well try to remember that one. She's had so many and they just inundate her at times I think.

Mrs. Ybor: I-- I haven't taken any notes. Oh, I've been-- I've been the mind, I've been (very) mind, I've-- I've been the universal (just) now, there's no universe either. Well, there were--

[9¼ second pause]

AD (very faint, possibly part of background): I think you're right. I think you're [few words inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor: See, I'm disturbed. I'm just full of light now. I'm-- that's really-- and that is really disturbing that I can't remember. Or, I am the truth, I am-- [12 second pause] That-- this-- Linda asked me about the pyramid, if it-- if I'd see any base of the pyramid. I said no, but the other day I saw a base, a goat that a bar-- a wooden bar burning this fire. And in-- forming a triangle, inside in the corner of the triangle was fire. So I think the pyramid is connecting link between the fire of the earth and the fire-- celestial fire.

AD: That [one word inaudible] yeah.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): From the-- yeah. A fire in front of me of-- burning, the fire, and in-- in the corner, in the tri-- in corner of the triangle the heavenly fire. So then the pyramid is this-- is circles connecting the fire of the earth with the fire in heaven.

AD (very faint, possibly part of background): Well, maybe you (understand) this.

Mrs. Ybor: You see last night, got the impression I see the basis of a-- [10¼ second pause] all the stars, everything on the stars [couple words inaudible]

AD (faint): (Tell them) when you saw yourself as a little heap.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh yes. Oh yes um-- I am brought up to the-- well, I always think the summit, but I never seem to reach the-- the summit of the world. Well, I was a-- and, that I was a star, and I was shining like a star. So I asked, what am I? Then I see a pile of burning embers in front of me. And I dropped down as a star and came down to my living room as a walking star. That was one of the days I was mad. I was walking, and I had to call you up, Master. I become a star, I can't get rid of the light. I'm (ready the light), I'm-- And when you enter yourself, right now you can give the same address as PB when people ask you where you live, and the (extra) world.

AD: Known as the celestial [one word inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Celestial world, yeah. (In your) other pile, it was that I saw like I was a pile. I was a pile.

AD: Just a few days ago you saw yourself as a heap of ashes. Kind of floating up. There you are, that's what the body's been reduced to. That's alright.

Mrs. Ybor: I was a pile of dirt. That was a few days ago.

AD: Uh-hm. And, [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Well--] we saw the body as a pile of dirt. The Bu-- the Buddhists call them the five heaps. [Note: The five heaps or skandhas are the components that make up our individual self or being. They are: form, feeling, perception, mental-formations, and consciousness.]

Mrs. Ybor: A mound of dirt.

AD (simultaneously): A mound, yes. A mound.

Mrs. Ybor: And what was I then?

AD: You were wondering what that was. (AD laughs a bit)

Mrs. Ybor: No but there was something else there. (Well) I see so many beautiful visions of the gods. And it-- and this Om in beautiful gold in front of me, this symbol of Om in heavy gold, beautiful design. And I see that quite often, you know. I could not forget it.

AD (faint): Gold symbol.

Mrs. Ybor (faint): And a [one word inaudible]

AD: And then a swastika? Wasn't it a swastika?

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, yes, that was a good omen too, yeah. It was also recently announcing this good happening. I see the swastika. You see, my memory is really fazed. It's getting to be (sick). Swastika. Oh, oh yes, a beautiful design. So that is my favorite symbol, it's not big. You see, my forefathers put that on the Runic stone, the swastika. And, they thought that that swas-- sign of the swastika brought down the power of the One. So, so-- and I saw that beautiful design. I have that. And next to it a compass.

AD: Uh-hm.

Mrs. Ybor: Of course I need the guru to explain this.

AD: Well the swastika represents the-- the gyration when the universe comes into being.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh right, gyrate. Talk about that, one day also I went crazy. I was turning around with the universe.

AD: Yes, and you were standing still too.

Mrs. Ybor: I was standing still, but I was turning around with the universe.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: And I had something like that this morning. Again I was turning around with the universe this morning.

AD: This morning [couple words inaudible] uh-hm. Ok. The experience here, of course, is that you're both in the cosmic circuit and out of the cosmic circuit.

Mrs. Ybor: Because, otherwise I feel that there was a zodiac beautifully designed. What was interesting, it was huge of course, taking all my ceiling, and full of little squares. And each little square was an animal. And there was one animal was more striking than the others was a bird. Bird. And I described the bird. And the boy said, "It's a pelican." Now I had never heard that (word/bird) before. I've never seen a pelican. But he told me it was a pelican. So I-- so I had to ask him what was the pelican, and-- and he-- it-- I think it's a-- it's revered in India, the Pelican.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: But that was-- it was beautiful. Every little-- little square had-- had a little animal. Oh yes, I remember I saw a beautiful pigeon of peace flying in front of me, that was also a good omen, wasn't it.

AD: That was a dove, yeah, it was a dove.

Mrs. Ybor: And-- and the clock, cosmic clock, and the cosmic man reaching from ceiling to floor.

AD: You might see that in the Manly Hall book. [Note: See Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages.]

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And-- and a beautiful-- or astral world, he doesn't allow me to be in the astral world but that is my preferred world. (some laughter)

AD: Well you sound like a (jailer). (laughter)

Mrs. Ybor: And there (I visit) nice people of the 15th century, you know. (laughter) Yes, I had-- I met, you know, that-- that famous Francisco the 1st with his beautiful silver necklace and his [couple words inaudible] and he smiled to me, and below me were two exquisite ladies dressed also in medieval clothes with a bonnet and smiling up to me.

AD: Yeah but they're not real.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, it was--

AD: It was fiction.

Mrs. Ybor: --beau-- But then I saw a statue my--

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: I saw-- it was a tall pillar, white pillar on a top of that tall pillar. There was something sitting. I couldn't discern it well. I just imagine it was that crazy monk in Egypt, that Saint Simon (one of the twelve apostles of Jesus)--

AD: Saint Simon.

Mrs. Ybor: --and that he didn't like to live on earth, and he couldn't reach heaven, so he placed himself on a pillar and lived there for years I think.

AD: Top of a column.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. Or on top of the column. So, I got-- I had my eyeglasses on the night table. So I put my eyeglasses on. (laughter)

AD (amidst laughter): She wanted to see her vision better. (more laughter)

Mrs. Ybor: It's interesting. I saw Napoleon and whole libraries of manuscripts beautifully designed with beautiful lettering in-- I think in Gothic they were. (Most--) and whole galleries of pictures. And you don't like them. And maps, flowers. (bit of laughter) You don't--

AD: Well, someday you'll be able to go to that library and study but for now, you know, you have to wait.

Mrs. Ybor: But, what-- [AD/S(?): Good.] but that mound I can't remember. You see, I recall it-- my first version was my excuse that I'm not allowed to think. So I-- I haven't thought on these things now for-- it's-- that's three years I'm-- I'm working on it. [AD: Well--] It's very hard.

AD: It's (just) very difficult for you to conceptualize 'cause you're so introverted right now that you can't make concepts, it isn't that you [couple words inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): But I just tell you that sum up-- so my-- I wrote-- I just read a few notes, and I said, I've been up there, and I was with the deity, the holy one. And-- and I came down, said I fell on my knees with reverence. It was so glorious what I seen up there that I can't describe what I see. It's just-- and divine to me, I hate to use that word all the time because I'm-- it's divinity all around me. Everything is so divinely beautiful. And-- and goodness. That is extraordinary, this-- the one I'm with now, the goodness. You don't know what goodness is. It's all goodness. You feel you're all goodness.

S (faint): Well, yeah.

[10½ second pause]

AD: You remember, can you remember the one where you were in-- in very deep trance, and you felt the presence, this awful mighty presence. And then you heard a voice [couple words inaudible] "You are the truth. You are the wisdom."

[short pause]

Mrs. Ybor: Good thing I spoke to you. Those trances, you know, they wear me out.

AD: Yes, I know, I know they do. Very often when you go through these things, you don't remember them.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh yes, now-- Oh yes, coming out of it, I heard that voice. And that voice, you see, is my-- is myself, the Overself.

AD: That's the Nous, that's-- that's the Intellectual-Principle telling you--

Mrs. Ybor: And also the beautiful creation of the world also, the way I see the formations. It's clear, clear sky and then I begin to see little designs. Designs are getting thicker and thicker and different layers of sky. And gradually getting solidified, those creations.

AD: Yeah, that's when you're starting to come down, it's when you're coming into manifestation.

Mrs. Ybor: Yes I'm-- Then I stop because I don't want to be the world.

AD: You don't want to be in the world.

Mrs. Ybor: I don't want nothing about the world [couple words inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): You don't want to be in the world. No, you want to go up.

Mrs. Ybor: I want to be with pure Mind. And I want-- Plotinus says it's going to imbue me with wisdom. Because I am wisdom.

AD: Yes, the wisdom-- you are that wisdom and it eventually gets manifested of course.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): (And) then, I saw this morning it was written, engraved in marble, "Wisdom." That gave me lot of correction. But what is-- you see, I don't know if I can resist very much longer because now this one uniting with me, it's so extraordinary tiresome. I'm accustomed to these [couple words inaudible] Maybe it lasts so long and-- see, I'm meditating all day and-- and finally--

AD: She won't slow down, that's why she got depression.

Mrs. Ybor: So I have to (exerc--) practice slowing down my respiration but soul, this anguish, made it also a beautiful-- the-- all those languages helped me a lot. And it convinces me, oh, it convinces me more and more all those myths I've been studying in Norway all my early-- for years, I was never able to interpret them. And now I experience it, those myths.

Like the most-- the most intriguing and maybe the most important symbol of Odin, the god of spirit, was his ring. (Odin/Golden) ring is called the Draupnir, the "dripper". Eight (horses). Eight rings of gold, and every night new-- eight new rings will replace those eight rings. [Note: In Norse mythology, Draupnir "the dripper" is a gold ring possessed by the god Odin with the ability to multiply itself. Every ninth night, eight new rings 'drip' from Draupnir, each one the same size and weight as the original.] And there was one little ring that was called necessity. And that little ring was needed to-- to join with that-- with that spiral.

And the other day, I-- when I went with the one in deep meditation, I see from a light above a beautiful oval ring coming down to my heart and then I see the ring of Odin in a spiral up to the one up there to the right. That's the ring of necessity. Eight rings.

AD: The spindle of necessity.

Mrs. Ybor: The spindle of necessity, yes.

AD (simultaneously): Plato speaks about the seven (orbs).

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. That's why in the Nibelung ring, that is the ring of the Nibelung [race of dwarfs who possessed a treasure hoard stolen by Siegfried in the German epic poem], that's, you know, necessity. So when they steal that from the Holy Spirit, they steal that, that spirit in the shape of a-- of-- no.

AD: Well that ring had the power--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): They don't understand that it was living in the waterfall. That spirit in a shape of a little-- little creature, we call [one word inaudible] he was there, and he s-- the-- they stole the ring from him. And then he swore that the eight rings of that family were all going to die. And those were the eighth-- eight (rings) of the Burgundian family. This-- this was a god that went down to-- for this Siegfried. He got that ring and he went down to help the Burgundians fight the Huns. And all the Burgundian family were exterminated, they were eight (ethnics). And there were-- of course they stolen the ring of necessity and they were not joined any longer with Odin, with that-- with that spider. I've seen some-- there's so many myths now that-- that I realize are-- are manifestations that old people wrote down as myth. And I think "myst," mystical also has turned into myth because nobody can explain the word 'myth'. And I begin to suspect that it comes from mystical.

AD (very faint): Mystery.

Mrs. Ybor: Myth. Because that was written as myth, what they experience. And it's a great shame that I haven't written down my-- my beautiful experiences. All that-- well all that light hasn't been too good always but there has been splendors. And these voices I hear all around me. No, no, within me, directing me. This self, this wonderful self. And now I know that is the divinity. [12¼ second pause] You're taking some notes? I see.

S (faint): Couple.

AD: Tired?

S (very faint): No.

Mrs. Ybor: No but I-- I can't, this head is completely [one/two words inaudible]

AD (faint, possibly part of background): Go ahead.

Mrs. Ybor: [one/two words inaudible] not only I must (not have--) but I spend 2, 4, 6, at least 6 hours a day, or in trance or in samadhi or in meditation. So my poor brains, I don't know where they are. They must be sleeping completely.

AD: Well, for what you're doing you don't need brains.

Mrs. Ybor: And I can't read a book and that is for the Master's despair. So he brings me picture albums, look at pictures. (Nobody can't) make me read. (bit of laughter).

AD: You're not telling them the whole story. I bring you picture albums so that when you're not meditating you have something to do. You could look at pictures.

Mrs. Ybor: But you see, I'm a worshiper of Greek sculpture and those Indian sculpture really are atrocious. (laughter) Like Kali. That's one reason I don't love Ramakrishna as I ought to love him, his love for this awful Kali [Hindu goddess associated with time, destruction, and empowerment], [couple inaudible AD words] dark skin. And all those purity, all those [one word inaudible] it pulls sometimes. Oh that is extraordinary. Also, I see, Maharishi is my all. He has been with me all the time. Oh and I got-- oh, I got-- You don't see, I got three eyes? I got third eye the other day. (laughter)

AD: That one they can't see. Third one they can't see.

Mrs. Ybor: I got it the other day. How do you start? Yeah, first that was--

AD: There's a statue without a head?

Mrs. Ybor: Or a statue-- a beautiful statue without a head. And that's-- that's what he wants. And he wants me to lose my head. (laughter) That was what the eye-- what happened to the-- Oh yes, I--

AD: That eye came over to you.

Mrs. Ybor: Yes. Oh yes. I see a alabaster, a portrait of-- in alabaster, smooth white, dazzling white, with one eye, but so shiny, so brilliant, I could hardly look at it, it was so shiny. And that came over here. And you don't see it?

AD: But tell them you couldn't see your own left eye.

Mrs. Ybor: No, don't tell them that. (bit of laughter)

S: You could've.

S: Right.

AD: That's alright, it'll come. That's a-- that's quite (significant).

Mrs. Ybor: Then those visions are extraordinary also, see. [AD: Well--] Lions and tigers. Oh that tiger, you know, last time just before I had my last heart attack, I see (living) a cosmos (or/of) the huge circle for [couple words inaudible] And, with a center. And at the periphery, there's a tiger. And suddenly that tiger is jumping from the periphery into the center. And the following day I had a heart attack. I told you that was a-- I understood that was a bad--

AD: Sign, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. And-- but it didn't-- but, that tiger didn't eat me up though, I managed to survive that also. Should I tell about my experience at the hospital?

AD: Yes, please, yes.

Mrs. Ybor: I think-- because that is my favorite goddess is Pallas Athena [Greek goddess known for wisdom and warfare mainly]. I have other goddesses coming also, but she is my favorite of-- And-- oh, I didn't tell you about Apollo, my-- my God and--

AD: Pallas Athena first. Come on.

Mrs. Ybor: Pall-Athena. Yeah. After that tiger (want--) foresaw my death, you see, he jumped on me in the center but-- but, I was brought all those-- Dear Randy, he came middle of the night, and he had to call an ambulance, I had terrible pains here. I already had two heart attacks in the last two years. And this time I was worried. I was brought in an ambulance to the-- to the intensive care. There were no doctor, only nurses. And-- and, when they consulted Dr. Shiva, because he had been treating me so far, and he-- and he told them to give me those very strong injections in the thigh to stop the pains. I was brought directly to room intensive care and they gave me-- another doctor came in and he gave me those two shots to stop the pain but the pain continued. And-- and then, there was no-- I don't remember right now.

What I remember was that the one nurse stayed on one-- each on one side, but the pain did not stop. And-- and then I start having visions. I-- I stumble and fall on the floor. I stumble and fall on the floor. Then blood is screaming out of my wound. Then I see my heart, a smashed crystal, smashed glass. It was all smashed, it was all crystal and all smashed. Then another outflow of blood. I saw a lake on the floor of blood from my wound. Yeah. Then I told myself, now, now don't-- don't you close your eyes, you will never open them again. So I-- I'm-- in spite of all the injections, I felt sleepy, I managed to keep my eyes open, and I saw red--blood red ceiling, blood red walls, blood red for-- floor. Everything was painted with blood. I was terrified. I saw the nurse on each side. I couldn't speak.

Then, (in through) the door, (when I look up) the most beautiful vision any human being could ever think. Pallas Athena. She's tall, she reaches the ceiling. She got the most exquisite robe, flowing robe. It wasn't ordinary like-- it was ethereal, flowing richly, exquisitely. And she was blonde. And she looked at me with a smile. And a little man just in black at her feet. And he came over to my bed. And, I survived. And then, I didn't know that Pallas Athena was related to medicine. And this all-knowing super guru tells me that-- that yes, she also had something to do with medicine. So she brought me that little doctor that saved my life. But she was so beautiful and smiling. She was blonde and so immense. She filled half the room in her flowing, dropped robe. Her [couple words inaudible] And-- then-- (laughs a bit) and I managed early in the morning the rest of it. "You look scared, Mrs. Ybor." (laughs a bit) But-- but this--

AD: And then, well then tell them about the dream of the scarab with the cross on the back. This happened some time ago, over a year ago, when she went into the hospital and when she came out. Remember the dream with the scarab, that little bug with the cross on the back?

Mrs. Ybor: Oh.

AD: And I was trying to tell you, this is good, this is-- this indicates the rebirth process. Remember?

Mrs. Ybor: Yes, that was the same scene I mentioned that--

AD (simultaneously): I know. Yeah, (do that up) there.

Mrs. Ybor: Yes. Then, that smashed heart and all that blood coming out of-- and then a scarabee with red squares on the back. I didn't like that either.

AD: Yes, but those were all good signs. And the blood running out and the scarab, all these were indications of the rebirth proc-- process.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And when I come to the house of-- of your daughter-in-law and see that red floor, I almost fainted. Gave me this horrible memory. In her kitchen she has the-- that blood red linoleum, you know.

AD: Well, she got it for you. (bit of laughter)

Mrs. Ybor: Oh dear.

AD: No, that was-- that was a very auspicious and benign--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And [one/two words inaudible] And I got-- oh, but, all that Maharishi talk about (the) (eye/'I'). The first time he comes, I only see one big eye but smiling to me. Oh he-- he has been with me hundreds of times and always smiling. Gives me a lot of courage. And Plotinus has been only once or twice. But then I'm in meditation, deep in meditation, and a clear voice say: "Shankaracharya! Shankaracharya!" I'm looking around, I don't see anything. And, he said "But he's also with you [one word inaudible] He's also with you." But he was wondering how he could think of me. You see, Om Gupta [student of Anthony] written a letter to him in my behalf long time ago thanking him, a letter of homage, I pay homage to his-- his-- well [AD simultaneously: (Presence.)] he looks so good and-- and I love his pictures, they're beautiful. And so he-- so he thought of me and that those thoughts reach me. Isn't it marvelous? All that hap-- those things happen to me every day. So I live in a world of marvelous, of-- but of marvelous, of beauty.

Oh, just recently also I had beautiful visions, exquisite sculptures and a gold-- golden rose. Oh, I just read a note. I saw a yellow rose, then a huge rose of gold I see. And the following day, Lauren-- [student of Anthony living at the Center at the time] Is she here? [AD: Uh-hm.] She sent me three golden roses.

AD: Red rose--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): I know-- Golden roses.

AD: Gold. Yellow roses, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: Yellow.

AD: Yeah, they're not gold.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh. (laughs) Well they look like gold because they are-- they are gold because I still love. I still got them on my desk. They're so beautiful.

AD (simultaneously): Yeah but they're-- they're ossified.

S: Yeah. (laughter)

AD: She's not going to get rid of them.

Mrs. Ybor: No, they're beautiful. And then-- but afterwards I had the most beautiful vision of all. That was a white rose, a huge, small white rose made by artistic hands. And after that, two days ago, I had a lotus, a huge lotus and small white lotus.

AD (simultaneously) Oh yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: It was-- but I think that my rose here was still more beautiful. It was just beautiful. Made me very, very happy. But you see, without my guru I would've gone crazy with so many crazy visions and--

AD (simultaneously): That's alright, (the TV) goes crazy too.

Mrs. Ybor: And-- Well, yes. And vision and the dreams are extraordinary dreams and (also/all so) significant, so important to him. And I tell them, like that stupid-- well, many are really too stupid to be even told but you always find something interesting.

AD: [few words inaudible] tired. Are you tired?

Mrs. Ybor: No but-- my mind is dead, Master. All the beautiful experiences (I really) don't remember. I could only tell you that immediately I make no effort. I'm brought up to the heavenly abode where the saints are. I'm so happy even-- I always told-- since several months I tell my-- my-- really-- if I don't get realized, if I don't get union, I'm so exceedingly happy in this. You see, I am really spending most of my life up in the transcendental world. In the-- in the former Eden, we lived as pure spirit and I remember that. I feel at home up there. And I'm so happy I (committed), even if I don't get union, I'm so happy up there, I'm pure spirit, and, that awareness of divinity. There is-- there is a divine power ruling the world. It's divine, it's divinely good. It creates beauty around you. It's intelligent and it fills you with such admiration, such awe. And that is within you, that holy power.

How can I tell you? It fills you with warmth. It's like-- sometimes I use this expression, I feel anointed to become a goddess of that warm breath that feels me with a felicity. And I'm no longer a human being. I think no harm could touch me anymore. I'm pure spirit and that is so happy. And that is where I live now. But (it) was (now) since yesterday. It's all different now. I feel I've got a mission. I must, as I said, I know the truth.

AD: And you want to share it.

Mrs. Ybor: And I want to share that. I understand now the Sages of India. They want-- they wanted to share that, radiate compassion. But it's not compassion the way I understand it. It's just-- it's too much, too much happiness. First thing you saw-- you have-- you must know that that happiness is within you. And it's such a bliss, so beautiful, so divine, all that word must cover. Everything is [one/two words inaudible] that is good and beautiful. And it gives beautiful dreams, and-- I really-- I don't care, I never cared for humanity because I think (they are) so close so ugly.

But now, I can't carry this where this happens alone. You can't eat the-- you can't eat the cake alone and enjoy it, can you, as the common American expression, isn't it? And that-- but that's true. It's-- it's so beautiful, it should be known, this-- When you just forget your humanity, forget "Oh I'm the body," oh, that's marvelous. I'm-- I'm absolutely (nobody/no body) (I'm into). I'm a player in the continental (World-Mind). I'm just pure-- And it's a blissful sensation of being just-- just pure spirit. And-- and then, you remember, you've been there before. I remember I've been there before. There is where I feel at home much more than down here.

AD: That's where we come from.

Mrs. Ybor: And that is why you got an aspiration to reach there. But that-- but, you see, now what it's doing, the deity, it's trying to purify me completely, even physically, but it's working on my body and it makes me tremble.

Oh and a funny experience. When I am-- I've got no body, I am with the deity, and I'm with all-- in a trance I think mostly, I feel acute pain in each foot. And every time, so finally I get to ask, because he's also a doctor, he's a me-- he's a medicine man, he's a-- next to God. [AD: Yeah.] And, so he said, well that was very interesting, that that is the soul, the soul that is-- gives movement. That gives movement to the soul. That's why Hermes [Olympian deity in ancient Greek religion, moves between gods and humans with winged feet] has got the wings on the heel. But-- but my soul does not move. When I got that experience of pain in the feet, my soul is quiet, has no thoughts. And he said it represent movements of the soul.

AD: Well that's the first movement. As the soul starts leaving the body, that's the first. It climbs up and you begin to feel ache in your foot. Because the life is leaving the foot--the warmth, the heat, the energy's leaving.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, don't appease that. But, you see, this-- this divine spirit is so--

AD (in background): Sit down. Good.

Mrs. Ybor: When I reach an awareness, I-- well maybe my guru doesn't believe that, but I actually feel the spirit invading my whole body. I feel it almost physically. I feel it running. I have no body but still I feel that spirit. And then my body disappears, yes. Then I might let go. But that-- that holy spirit. And it's warm. Treats me with warmth and-- [short pause]

But, my words are so poor, and my mind is-- is so dead. But I have-- I tell you, I don't like people to tell me I'm lucky. I am fortunate. I fall in the grace of God. But, you know, talk about crucification, I'm crucified every day.

AD (faint): [couple words inaudible] yes you are. Very important.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): It's-- no, it's true, it's-- I've gone through terrible ordeal, physical pain, you know.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: He says (him too). No, I forgot, they-- they've got a tendency, everybody wants to say, "Oh you are lucky." Well no, I've earned that luck I think. I don't like that word. You're lucky [AD simultaneously: Well--] at the-- in a casino when you're gambling for money [couple words inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): Yes. Well I think most of them know that there's no luck involved here, this is karma, especially--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): But no. I mean it's te-- Well no. And really, I had to vanquish terrible handicaps. I never-- And that light also is-- is very (cruel/crude). And I never, never meditate without pains, all my--

AD: Yes. This woman has heart trouble and hernia.

Mrs. Ybor: Open hernia and every time [few words inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): And short breath, hyperventilation, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: (Show me) bronchitis [couple words inaudible] oh yeah.

AD (simultaneously): Bronchitis, yeah. But we'll figure a few more out. (AD laughs)

S: Yeah, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: So understand, I'm happy when I haven't got no body. (laughter)

AS (amidst laughter): Didn't tell me you [couple words inaudible]

S: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: First. That's why I'm irritated to get into my bodies, yeah.

AD (simultaneously): That's right.

AS: (That pile) was right.

AD: Live in the subtle body, you don't have all this.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. And it's also so good to know that ev-- everything is helping you, all these marvelous gods.

AD: Yes, that was that, that--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Oh, oh, or-- Oh, Eros [Greek god of love and sex] has come several times to me. Give me courage. And he's strange, he comes from behind, and I see him.

S: Ok.

[Audio File 1981 0318a Ends]