Wednesday, January 12th, 1983

CLASS at Wisdom's Goldenrod, Hector, NY

with Anthony Damiani (AD)

January 12, 1983

PB PARAS; EMOTIONS & ETHICS

TOPIC: PB Paras

SUBJECT: Emotions & Ethics

SUBSUBJECTS: Character, Love, Detachment, Evil Forces

CONTENTS:

DISCIPLINING EMOTION, PURIFYING PASSION, AND UPLIFTING CHARACTER

EVIL FORCES CAN LEAD QUESTERS ASTRAY

THE PHILOSOPHIC MEANING OF LOVE

EVIL FORCES WILL ATTACK QUESTERS WHO ARE MAKING REAL ADVANCES

ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON CHARACTER AND EMOTION

THE INTERACTION WITH ANOTHER PERSON IS CAPABLE OF EVOKING IN YOU THOSE TENDENCIES THAT DUPLICATE THE THOUGHT THEY ARE HAVING

LOVE AND RENUNCIATION

BOOKS READ FROM OR REFERENCED:

• Paul Brunton, Notebooks. 16 vols; Vol. 1 entitled Perspectives [Persp.], published 1984-1988. Some Paul Brunton Notebook paras are, as of 2018, unpublished, and are noted as such.

• Paul Brunton, The Wisdom of the Overself

• Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear of Destiny

• Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich (Memoirs)

• Yajnavalkya, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

NOTES:

• [diagram] means the speaker is referencing a diagram as he or she is speaking.

• Unpublished PB paras should be sourced and proofread.

TRANSCRIBED Verbatim by IT 2019; reformatted by JRM & JF 2019-2020. Subheads and Table of Contents added by JRM 2019. In 2023, IT fixes prefatory matter and footer, updates audio file name, fixes typos and other minor errors, completes Book List, adds new notes within transcript. In 2025, MW adds Subsubjects and alters Subheads to make more accurate. Archival verbatim transcript – V14.1a.

AUDIO FILES: 1983 0112a, 1983 0112b. [Note: "Tape" and "Side" refer to original audio cassette tapes later digitized into .MP3 Audio Files.]

1983 01/12 at Wisdom's Goldenrod

PB Paras; Emotions and Ethics

Archival verbatim transcript

DISCIPLINING EMOTION, PURIFYING PASSION, AND UPLIFTING CHARACTER

[Audio File 1983 0112a Begins]

PB [V5, 6:3.178, RC reading]: "[The adept who attains perfect inner serenity can do so only by paying] the price of forgoing the emotional agitations, attractions, and repulsions which constitute much of the inner life of most people. Having attained it himself, he can lead others to it only by pointing towards it as a reachable goal [RC reads: a goal that is reachable] for them, too. He may not yield to personal favouritism or egotistic caprice based on likes and dislikes in selecting those whom he is to help. Indeed, because of this it is said that he is [RC adds: far] more interested in mankind collectively rather than as individuals. Now if he had to commit emotional suicide to reach his present height, it is unreasonable to expect that he should flatter or encourage those who, although seeking the same height, seek also to preserve or [RC adds: to] nourish their egoistic emotions. The latter are nearly always closely linked to egoistic desires. An inward detachment from all eagerness for earthly life is the grim price that must be paid before entry into the kingdom of heaven can be got. Such detachment requires soft sentimentality to yield to hard recognition of the impersonal realities of the human situation. And this recognition must assuredly lead the seeker far away from conventional points of view concerning his personal duties, his family relations, and his social behavior."

[15½ second pause]

JG: Would you reread the last part of that?

S (faint): Reread.

JG: Last couple sentence?

[short pause]

S (very faint): Ask Michael.

S (very faint): (Ask) Michael (he) said.

JG: Oh.

S (very faint): Yeah.

[short pause]

RC: "An inward detachment…"?

JG: Yeah, where he gets more general.

RC: "If the adept had to commit emotional suicide…"?

JG: Yeah.

S (very faint): I thought he wasn't paraphrasing.

JG: No. (bit of laughter)

S: What rage?

PB [V5, 6:3.178, RC rereads a part of]: "Now if he had to commit emotional suicide [RC adds: in order] to reach his present height, it is unreasonable to expect that he should flatter or encourage those who, although seeking the same height, seek also to preserve or [RC adds: to] nourish their egoistic emotions. The latter are nearly always closely linked to egoistic desires. An inward detachment from all eagerness for earthly life is the grim price that must be paid before entry into the kingdom of heaven can be got. Such detachment requires soft sentimentality to yield to hard recognition of the impersonal realities of the human situation. And this recognition must assuredly lead the seeker far away from conventional points of view concerning his personal duties, his family relations, and his social behavior."

[9½ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:4.30 & Persp., Ch. 6 #25, RC reading]: "It is true that thought precedes action, that actions express thoughts, and that to rule [RC adds: the] mind is to rule the entire life. But it is also true that man's battles with himself proceed by progressive stages, that he exerts will more easily than he changes feeling. Therefore, the discipline of inward thinking should follow after--and not before--it [RC reads: before--and not after]. To counsel him to take care of his inner life and that then the outer life will take care of itself, as so many mystics do, is to be plausible but also to show a lack of practicality. Man's heart will feel no peace as his mind will know no poise until he abandons the lower instincts and gives himself up to this unearthly call. First, he must abandon them outwardly in deeds; later he must do it inwardly even in thoughts. This will inevitably bring him into [RC adds: an] inner struggle, into oscillation between victories and defeats, elations and despairs. The way up is long, [hard], rugged, and slow to tread. It is always a stage for complaints and outcries, battles and falls. Only time--the master power--can bring him [RC reads: it] to its lofty end. Only when the lessons of birth after birth etch themselves deeply and unmistakably into his conscious mind through dreadful repetition can he accept them co-operatively, resignedly, and thus put a stop to the needless sufferings of desire, passion, and attachment."

[short pause]

RC: Ok?

[students assent, faint]

PB [V5, 6:4.30 & Persp., Ch. 6 #25, RC rereading]: "It is true that thought precedes action, that actions express thoughts, and that to rule mind is to rule the entire life. But it is also true that man's battles with himself proceed by progressive stages, that he exerts will more easily than he changes feeling. Therefore, the discipline of inward thinking should follow after--and not before--it."

S (faint): That was good.

S (very faint): Yeah.

AH/S(?) (faint): Yeah that was good.

S (very faint): He says a mystic.

BS (very faint): Gotta be careful.

S (faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

S (very faint): It's pretty [one word inaudible]

S (simultaneously): Exercising Buddha-hood.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

[10¾ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:4.30 & Persp., Ch. 6 #25 cont., RC rereading]: "To counsel him to take care of his inner life and that then the outer life will take care of itself, as so many mystics do, is to be plausible but also to show a lack of practicality. Man's heart will feel no peace as his mind will know no poise until he abandons the lower instincts and gives himself up to this unearthly call. First, he must abandon them outwardly in deeds; later he must do it inwardly even in thoughts. This will inevitably bring him into inner struggle, into oscillation between victories and defeats, elations and despairs [RC reads: despair]."

RC: I think that supports that, what the "it", since it's easier to exert will than to change feeling(s).

S (faint): Uh-hm.

RC: First abandon them outwardly in deeds. Then do it inwardly even in thought.

PB [V5, 6:4.30 & Persp., Ch. 6 #25 cont., RC rereading]: "The way up is long, hard, rugged, and slow to tread. It is always a stage for complaints and outcries, battles and falls. Only time--the master power--can bring him to its lofty end. Only when the lessons of birth after birth etch themselves deeply and unmistakably into his conscious mind through dreadful repetition can he accept them co-operatively, resignedly, and thus put a stop to the needless sufferings of desire, passion, and attachment."

RC (faint): It's similar to the one--

S (faint): You didn't try to put it in?

[11¾ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:1.181, RC reading]: "The progressing disciple who reaches an advanced state will find that his powers of mind [and] will develop accordingly. Where they are not accompanied by sufficient self-purification, they may become dangerous to himself and hurtful to others. His vigilance over thought and feeling must become greater accordingly. To dwell upon thoughts which belong to a lower level out of which he has climbed may open up a pitfall in his path; to hold bitter feelings against another person may throw discord into that person's life."

S (very faint): Yeah.

[short pause]

S (very faint): Read that again.

S (faint whisper): Yeah.

S (very faint): Yeah.

PB [V5, 6:1.181, RC rereads]: "The progressing disciple who reaches an advanced state will find that his powers of mind and will develop accordingly. Where they are not accompanied by sufficient self-purification, they may become dangerous to himself and hurtful to others. His vigilance over thought and feeling must become greater accordingly. To dwell upon thoughts which belong to a lower level out of which he has climbed may open up a pitfall in his path; to hold bitter feelings against another person may throw discord into that person's life."

[26¾ second pause]

PB [Persp., Ch. 2 #34, RC reading]: "It is futile for anyone who has muddled his own life to set out to straighten the lives of others. (bit of laughter) It is arrogant and impertinent for anyone to start out improving [RC reads: to start straightening out] humanity whilst he himself lamentably needs improvement. The time and strength that he proposes to give in such service will be better used in his own. To meddle with the natural course of other men's lives under such conditions is to fish in troubled waters and [RC adds: to] make a fool of himself. Only when he has himself well in hand is there even a chance of rendering real service. A man whose own interior and exterior life is full of failure should not mock the teaching by prattling constantly about his wish to serve humanity. Such service must first begin at the point nearest to him, that is, his own self."

[20¾ second pause]

PB [V13, 20:4.266, RC reading]: "Imagination could not grasp, even if sympathy could sustain, all this planet's inescapable human misery and animal pain at once. No man living could ever measure the one or alleviate the other. During the 1940s, millions of men [and] women and beasts lived in torture or died in agony, starved in famine or were liquidated in explosion. He must perforce accept the quantitative limits which Nature, insulating his personality, sets for him here or else set up his own. However distressed a man may be when confronted by depressing national situations or by painful international tragedies, knowing that he can do nothing [RC reads: do little] about them, that they are beyond his limited power as a single individual to influence, alter, or reshape, he will have to let [the] responsibility for them rest on [the] proper shoulders and accept the lesson in karma's working. He is not a second Atlas to bear the enormous burden of the whole world's accumulated agony on his little shoulders. Nevertheless, given a man who is [RC reads: Nevertheless, if a man is] at all sensitive enough to respond emotionally to all the piled-up misery that lies around him, imaginative enough to recall it even when he is isolated from it by good fortune, can such a one remain immured in his own individuality and become impassive enough to live undistressed by the woes of others, untouched by their cries? Hence although personally helpless in such present matters, he can at least work patiently to improve future ones by working to improve future humanity. He will seek to find a sensible balance between the good manners of attending to his own spiritual business and the compassionate duty of making his knowledge and experience available to others."

[short pause]

PB [V3, 2:8.88, RC reading]: "His first duty is to himself; only when this has been properly attended to is he free to consider his second duty, which is towards mankind. Nevertheless, he is not to fall into the error which would defer all consideration of such altruism until he has completely realized his Overself. If he does so, it may be too late to create a new attitude. It [RC reads: This altruism] ought always to be at the back of his mind; it should be the ultimate ideal behind all [RC adds: of] his immediate endeavours."

[16¾ second pause]

VM: Maybe you could throw a comment, that particular quote seems considerably more balanced than the one maybe two ago or so [JG: Yeah.] which seemed to take a very hard line about forget anybody else, work on yourself, that's certainly the [student assents] only thing you really should worry about. And in this it seems like he's taking a more-- granted that's definitely the first priority or the majority of your energy should be put into that and so on but this other thing must be kept as a [one/two words inaudible] (ultimate) thing.

RC (simultaneously): The other one started out a little rougher.

VM: Pardon?

RC: The other one started out a little rougher, it started out "It is futile for anyone who has muddled his own life…"

VM: Yeah. Well that seems to include a lot of us though. (bit of laughter)

RC: But it's interesting in that particular quote it's a little harder. To me at least. He talked most in terms of "A man whose own interior and exterior life is full of failure…" [students assent, faint] I get the sense from the-- the one that it definitely is more balanced.

S: [one/two words inaudible

RC: Whole person, yeah right. I don't know. It-- it is really saying if you want to be able to help anybody, get your own interior work, exterior work straightened out a little bit instead of being distracted from doing that by pretending you're doing it to be able to help other people.

[16½ second pause]

HE: See, to me there was just something about that [couple words inaudible] it might be too late to--

RC: Change the attitude.

HE: Yeah you would think that the compassion would kind of flow automatically, I mean, as long as the Overself [couple/three words inaudible] have to be intentionally developed.

[16¼ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:5.359, RC reading]: "If he catches himself criticizing his critics, being indignant with those who oppose him or despondent because others have denounced him, he ought to pull himself up sharply. Instead, let him enter into their shoes for a few moments to understand why they dislike or attack him as they do, and then to give their attitude his mental sympathy for these few moments. Their statements about him may be totally false or quite true, somewhat exaggerated or wilfully distorted. Nevertheless, let him continue to step imaginatively into their shoes. This attempt will not be easy and an inner struggle will probably be unavoidable before he can bring himself to make it. He is not asked to endorse their attitude or [RC adds: to] approve the emotions which give rise to it, but only to practise this useful exercise for developing tolerance and diminishing egoism. Even if the others have tried to bolster up their own egos by deriding his, the activity may seem pleasant but will prove unprofitable [RC reads: will not prove profitable]. For not only does it break any harmonious relation with him, [but] it poisons their own psyches. Thus they punish themselves. Why should he let resentment drag him into the same error? On the contrary, they offer a chance to deny his ego, to exalt his ethical outlook, and to shift his emotional centre of gravity from the negative pole to the positive one. Let him regard them [RC reads: these people] as his tutors, possibly his benefactors. Let him take these episodes as chances both to do needed work on himself and to refuse to identify himself with negative emotions. They are to be used for present instruction and future guidance. Thus he lifts himself out of his [RC reads: the] personal ego, actually denying himself [RC: That's underlined."…actually denying himself] as Jesus bids him [RC adds: to] do.

"Until it becomes perfectly natural and quite instinctive for him to react in this philosophic manner to every provocation, temptation, or irritation, he needs to continue the inner work upon himself. He needs to drill himself every day in those particular qualities in which he is deficient. Each new problem in his relations with others must be accepted also as a problem in his own development, if the foregoing is to be practised. But after that has been done and not before, since it is an indispensable [RC reads: essential] prerequisite, he may dismiss the problem altogether and rise to the ultimate view, where infinite goodness and calm alone reign and where there are no problems at all."

[short pause]

JG: What page is that and what number book?

RC: It's in the 6 red.

JG: Uh-huh.

RC: And it's page 191. Number 1, it's the whole page. It's the only one on the page.

S (faint): Ok.

S (very faint): I don't see the paragraph.

[15¾ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:5.79, RC reading]: "In the sphere of human relations, he will hold himself to certain attitudes which eradicate the negative tendencies in him and stimulate the positive. When thrown among those who do wrong and practice evil, he will not fall into anger, hatred, resentment, or bitterness, but [RC adds: he] will use the occasion to rise into [RC reads: to] patience, detachment, or indifference, knowing that such persons will [RC adds: at] sometime and somewhere infallibly receive the painful return of what they have given out. When, on the contrary, he is brought into the company of those who do right and practice virtue, he will rejoice in their goodness and be glad to witness their conduct. When he finds himself among those suffering misfortune he will pity, and when among those enjoying good fortune he will feel no envy."

[short pause]

RC: This one I thought was interesting for the shades of meaning for what goes later.

PB [V5, 6:1.211, RC reading]: "It is not enough to overcome the jealousy which begrudges other people's [RC reads: people] having advantages denied [RC adds: to] us: we must also take the next step and overcome the envy which feels discontented at not having those advantages and continues to desire them for itself. Jealousy would go out of its way to hurt those others by depriving them of their possessions, but envy would not fall so low."

[20 second pause]

RC: Try to read a few quotes that a lot of people picked which seemed to be popular among people that were reading.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

S (faint): I couldn't hear.

S (faint): Huh?

RC: I was hesitant to read (out) but a lot of people picked (it) so--

S (faint): Yeah.

RC: Maybe we'll talk about it. [17½ second pause] Some of these quotes are in terms of-- like a lot of them are just telling us you have to purify your heart. And, some of them I guess are more specific about why. Maybe this is one of them.

EVIL FORCES CAN LEAD QUESTERS ASTRAY

PB [V7, 11:2.56 & Persp., Ch. 11 #9, RC reading]: "The risk is greater because a human emissary of the adverse element in Nature will automatically appear at critical moments and consciously or unconsciously seek hypnotically or passively to lead him astray as he or she has gone astray. Our own world-wide experience, embracing the written reports and spoken confidences of thousands of individual cases of mystical, yogic, and occult seekers, both Oriental and Occidental, has gravely taught the need of this warning."

[short pause]

S: Would you read that again?

S (very faint): Yeah.

RC: This is page 41 [S: Uh-hm.] in the 352.

S: Page 41?

RC: Yeah.

PB [V7,11:2.56 & Persp., Ch. 11 #9, RC rereads]: "The risk is greater because a human emissary of the adverse element in Nature will automatically appear at critical moments and consciously or unconsciously seek hypnotically or passively to lead him astray as he or she has gone astray. Our own world-wide experience, embracing the written reports and spoken confidences of thousands of individual cases of mystical, yogic, and occult seekers, both Oriental and Occidental, has gravely taught the need of this warning."

RC: It's interesting because the next quote, it's not the same quote, but the next one it turns out that--

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "Slowly, after many tumbles and falls, he will learn to cope with such situations."

S (faint): Ok.

S (faint): Ok.

LR: What does he mean when he says that a risk is greater?

S (very faint): Yeah.

LR: The risk is greater than-- the risk is (going) greater [few words inaudible] if you're trying to pursue that--

RC: Yeah. In terms of reasons to-- to discipline the emotions, purify the passions, uplift the character.

JG: The-- the risk [LR simultaneously: You--] is (great) for something to appear though for a-- I-- that-- that was very first sentences of me.

LR: Well it represented (these/this) certain trials that happen through treading a certain path that don't necessarily arise otherwise. That's the impression I got.

[student assents, very faint]

S: [one word inaudible]

VM: The risks are greater because you have more to lose.

JG: Could you just read the first sentence over, express--

PB [V7,11:2.56 & Persp., Ch. 11 #9, RC rereads a part of]: "The risk is greater because a human emissary of the adverse element in Nature will automatically appear at critical moments…"

JG: A human to whom, you know, to you, is that-- is that--

S: Metaphorical.

JG: When you have gone-- if you have gone astray as a decep--

S (simultaneously): Um, no.

RC: They give like an opportunity [S, faint: Yeah.] to go astray.

LR: Well he--

JG (simultaneously): Well you have them all the time, don't you?

VM (very faint): Uh-uh, no.

LR: No he has many [JG simultaneously: I don't--] quotes, Johanna, too where he says just when you get to the brink of some understanding or some possibly mystical grace through your meditation or some advancement [couple words inaudible]

JG (simultaneously): A critical stage, ok.

LR: A critical point.

JG (simultaneously): Yeah if that's the case.

LR: Something will inevitably arise, inevitably arise--

JG: In this case he says a human emissary.

S: Uh-hm.

LR: Which will overwhelmingly--

JG: Distract you, yeah, consciously or-- or, you know-- consciously or passively he expressed himself. But then there is one part in that sentence where he says if you have gone astray.

S: No.

S: No.

JG: No?

S (simultaneously): Will try to (lead) [JG simultaneously: I'm not--] you astray.

S: Yeah.

JG: Excuse me?

S (faint): Oh no.

S: Try to lead you astray I think [S: Yeah.] as he or she has gone astray.

S (simultaneously, very faint): Oh I see, ok, yeah.

RC (simultaneously): To lead him astray as he or she has gone astray.

LR: Is that emissary [one word inaudible]

JG (simultaneously): Oh ok, see I didn't--

S (simultaneously, faint): The emissary, yeah.

S (simultaneously): Uh--

S (very faint): [couple words inaudible]

JG: Ok.

RC: Yeah. It's a long first sentence.

S (very faint): (Yeah.) Why don't you repeat it.

PB [V7,11:2.56 & Persp., Ch. 11 #9, RC rereads a part of (simultaneously with S above)]: "The risk is greater because a human emissary of the adverse element in Nature will automatically appear at critical moments and consciously or unconsciously seek hypnotically or passively to lead him astray as he or she has gone astray."

[students assent, faint]

JG: I still couldn't get it. (bit of laughter)

FW(?): Randy? I'm sorry, but I don't think the contents of that quote is clear to me. Does that mean anybody who takes up meditation or studies philosophy?

[short pause]

S: Sounds almost as if he wrote it to fit into a context and the context isn't there, doesn't it?

RC: It's possible. This is one of the volumes that didn't change numbers. So, in terms of whether or not he's discussing it in the context of emotion and ethics, I think that-- that context is more or less there. There are some other quotes we can read that may or may not be directly related. But it's interesting because we did talk about this one time.

S (faint): Yeah.

JG: We did?

S (simultaneously, very faint): We what?

S (faint): We did.

S (simultaneously, very faint): Yeah.

RC: In fact it was when he was here. [9½ second pause] He was saying how you can reach the height of the yogic development. You can attain Nirvikalpa samadhi. And there you're really-- that's really where you begin your uniquely philosophic [one word inaudible] where you have to do everything that the yogi would do but then you start becoming a philosopher. And he says that until you're permanently established, that you can have had the highest experience, but until you're permanently established on the other side, on the other shore, until you're permanently established you can fall all the way back and have to start--

JB: All the way?

RC: That's what he said.

JB: All the way?

RC: The first day. The first day.

S (faint): Yeah.

AD: It's not the law the way (I/I'd) understand.

RC: Well the next day-- I got sort of upset about that, the next time I talked to him I asked him some more and he said that was a possibility, but don't confuse possibility with probability. He said because by the time someone has gotten the karma to get him that far, he's also got friends. And, (some laughter) those people tend to work together to see that they don't fall back too far. But then he brought in the thing that that was an extreme but in the whole thing of as you're progressing up that every time-- every time you make a positive [short pause] advance, every time you make a positive advance, the opposition becomes much more active. And it becomes subtler. As you become more subtle it becomes more subtle. And you should begin to expect that every time you make an advance it's going to get counterattacked.

S: And it's one step back-- but one step forward and five steps back theory, is that what you're saying?

RC (simultaneously): Yeah if you're real good you get to fight with the big guy.

S (faint): I don't.

LR: Anthony, what was the law the way you understood?

S (faint): (Uh-hm.)

LR: What was the law that you understood?

AD: You could only go so far back and then the positive forces come in and stop it, stop that.

S (very faint): (Interesting), yeah.

[short pause]

DB: So basically the distinction between the quote you initially read and well what is-- and another context is that instead of your own ego getting to do the job somebody else's ego does it for you.

S (faint): Yeah.

DB: I mean isn't that the distinction? Sort of somebody just shows up and says "Hi there", and, [student assents] I mean--

RC: I think that gives you both options, because if it's hypnotically, then [couple inaudible student words simultaneously with RC] the person, you know, actively does something. But if it's passively, I think they just give your ego an opportunity to do what it normally does. They just let you think you're a great guy when you did the whole thing.

S: Uh-hm.

AH: Now is this-- this person, in this context it's all about another human being, but it's always a representative of the adverse forces of Nature. Is that so?

RC: Well that's what this particular quote said, "the human emissary of the adverse element in Nature".

AH: And that's a response on the part of someone who has attempted to overcome Nature to some extent.

RC: Well I wonder because he's-- he's got these four options. He's got consciously or unconsciously. Seems like a person could be doing it and not know it consciously. And it's got hypnotically or passively. So it seems like a person could be performing this service without knowing it and without really doing much with it but just providing you with an opportunity to make your own mess.

AH: It's like Nature's response.

RC: Adverse element.

AD (simultaneously): Johanna it's not Nature.

JG: What is it then Anthony?

AD: It told you in the quote.

JG: It's not clear to me.

S: What is it?

JB/S(?) (faint): Can you say adverse [couple words inaudible] Nature?

S (simultaneously): The opposite (force).

AD (very faint): It tells you.

S: In Nature?

AD (faint): Well it's gonna be in Nature. It's [couple/three words inaudible] you really needed to know.

S (faint): Oh yeah.

S (very faint): Yeah.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

S: It seems like this could even happen to the beginner who suddenly finds themselves on the Quest and is also attracted to psychics or [S, faint: Yeah.] whatever.

RC: I think that was the real charm of the Hobbit [couple words inaudible] teach the little fellow to make him a ring. (RC laughs)

S (faint): Yeah. (laughter)

S: Uh-oh.

RC: And he just wanted to be warm. [35¾ second pause] This isn't related.

PB [V16, 25:3.480, RC reading]: "Whoever has attained [RC adds: to] this blessed state would not be true to himself if he were not ardently happy to share it with others, if he were not ever ready to help them attain it too. And this desire extends universally to all without [RC adds: any] exception. He excludes none--how could he if the compassion which he feels be the real thing that comes with the realized unity of the Overself, that is, of the Christ-self, and not merely a temporary emotional masquerader! He himself could have written those noble words which Saint Paul wrote more than once in his epistles:"In Him there cannot be Jew or Greek, Barbarian, Scythian, but all are one man in Christ Jesus." Despite this, he soon finds that iron fetters have been placed on his feet. He finds, first, that only the few who are themselves seekers are at all interested; second, that [even] among this small number there are those who, because of personal dislikes, racial prejudice, social snobbery, or family antagonism, are unwilling to approach him; and third, that the mischievous agencies from occult spheres, through false reports and stimulated malice, delude a part of those who remain into creating an evil mental picture of him which is utterly unlike the actuality. For when such a man [really] begins to become an effective worker in this [RC reads: the] sacred cause, the evil forces begin their endeavours to pull him down and thus stop him. They may inspire human instruments with fierce jealousy or personal hatred of him, or they may try other ways. It is their task to destroy the little good that he has done or to prevent whatever good he may yet do. It is an unfortunate but historic fact that many an aspirant is carried away by the false suggestions emanating from such poisoned sources."

[1 minute 3½ second pause]

RC: You want to read about love?

S: Yeah. (some laughter)

S (faint): Yeah, that's what we want.

S (simultaneously, very faint): [three/few words inaudible] (bit of laughter)

[18¾ second pause with some faint background student talking]

THE PHILOSOPHIC MEANING OF LOVE

PB [V5, 6:2.113, RC reading]: "Only when love ceases to be personal and becomes impersonal, when it passes out of the local into the universal, does it fulfill itself and attain its own unmixed and unadulterated integrity."

JG (faint): And passes out of the what? Say compassion.

RC: I'm going to pass it out.

S (simultaneously, faint): (I know.)

S: Yes.

S (faint): Yeah, keep going.

AD: Johanna, will you sit up closer to him? Sit (up there). (laughter)

S: Oh, Anthony, I can.

[16½ seconds of background student talking, laughter]

S (faint): Johanna can tell him. (some laughter)

[background student talking and laughter followed by pause, 24½ seconds]

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "He must distinguish love from that surface shallow affection which is so often raised to the dignity of love, or that baser animal lust which mocks at most."

[13¾ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.101, RC reading]: "We have been told by well-meaning ministers of religion and counsellors in psychology to practise Jesus's words,"Love thy neighbour." Now there are two different ways in which we can do so, because there are two different interpretations of these words--the religious and the philosophic. According to the first, we have at least to be amiable toward our next-door neighbour, or at most to throw our arms around him and express our warm feeling for him (laughter) in a gushy, sentimental, hyper-emotional manner. According to the second and philosophic interpretation, we have to understand that every person who crosses our path is our neighbour, everyone with whom we are thrown into momentary or continuous contact is our neighbour, whether at home or at work. It is in these immediate contacts that irritations are bred, differences are noted, and dislikes appear. It is much easier to love humanity as a whole or in the abstract than it is to love humanity in the individual [S, faint: You bet.] and [in] the concrete." (laughter)

S (faint): Right.

RC: They must (have) specifically (include in) concrete.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

PB [V5, 6:2.101 cont., RC reading]: "In spite of the instinctive urge to manifest irritability, dislike, anger, resentment, or [even hatred against those with whom you are thrown in contact, you can steel your will and resist the negative feeling. If you can take all these negative feelings and sublimate them into understanding, tolerance, and goodwill based on the teachings of philosophy]…"

(Side 1 of original cassette tape digitized as 1983 0112a Ends; Side 2 Begins)

PB [V5, 6:2.101 cont., RC reading]: "…you are actually loving your neighbour in the sense that Jesus meant it. You will then see that such philosophic love is far removed from and far superior to the hyper-emotionalism which blows hot and cold [RC reads: far removed from the hyper-emotionalism which blows hot and cold and that this is far superior to that]."

[short pause]

LR: It's like what the Dalai Lama says.

RC: Yeah. Toronto?

LR (faint): In Syracuse, I think it was in Syracuse [couple/three words inaudible] Wasn't that in (Syracuse)?

JB: Loud.

LR: I was saying-- What did he say David? That it's easy to love everyone except for the guy that's [DR: Sitting next to you.] sitting next to you because he's blowing his nose. (laughter)

S (amidst laughter): But of course it is! (laughter)

RC (amidst laughter): Picking it-- picking his nose, (well) picking his nose. (bit more laughter)

LR (faint): I can't remember the example but it was really good. He said (that person can) love everyone and-- After this [possibly one word inaudible]

S (very faint): I think he said [S simultaneously, very faint: Yeah.] it in Syracuse.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

LR: Syracuse.

[students assent, very faint]

JB: Well the-- the meanings are even more akin than that because the rest of the Jesus quote is that you should love your neighbor as thyself. [student assents, faint] There's a more intimate link with your neighbor than, I mean, everyone is your neighbor, just everyone is as your own self. And it also evidences that you don't get to love your neighbor very well until you do love yourself. But (there's/that) so much rests upon the meaning of that "as" I was hoping we would get that-- this quote would talk about the rest of that.

S (faint): Yeah.

RC: There's actually another quote that talks about it in more detail that I'm pretty sure is in this list, it picks up that side of it and that if we don't get it, it's an oversight 'cause it should be in this-- it should be in this group.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

[14¼ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.114, RC reading]: "Real love is not something to be withdrawn abruptly when the person who is its object annoys or offends you."

[9 second pause followed by laughter]

S: That wasn't fair.

S (very faint): Well--

S (very faint): Probably.

LH: [couple words inaudible] count?

RC: No. (laughter)

[14 second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.106, RC reading]: "How many unreflective and selfish persons have uttered the words"I love you" to someone else--[RC adds: to a] wife, friend or teacher--when what they actually [if unconsciously] meant was, "I love myself (laughter) and [RC adds: I] use you to serve my interests (laughter) or to satisfy my feelings."" (laughter)

DB/S(?): You think he does it?

S (faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): Really?

S (very faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): That's [couple words inaudible]

S (very faint): Pretty effective words.

RC: To reach that level of love anyway (laughter) isn't right.

AH: Randy, what was the phrase, to serve my what?

MW(?): Serves my interests.

RC: Interests.

AH: Oh interests.

[short pause]

AD: It's strange the ones we don't ask to get repeated. (laughter, student words)

S (amidst laughter): Isn't it [one/two words inaudible]

DB (amidst laughter): Would you-- would you repeat that? (laughter)

RC (faint): If you sit up here. (laughter) [short pause] This is--

DB (faint): No, well, Randy?

JB: Randy now can we go back to before you said "can we read about love now?" I thought it was supposed to be a break from the-- (some laughter) break with-- Do you-- do you know which one that was? It was very tough and I thought reading about love was like a-- some kind of surcease which did not happen. (laughter)

RC: Oh, you mean the one about the reactions to a teacher?

JB: Yeah, yeah, the suffering there.

RC/S(?): Ok.

[9 second pause]

RC: I guess a good way to relate this one back to-- for me at least was one we read way back when we were doing the ego ones in terms of why most of the good teachers aren't bothered by very many students.

VM (faint): I don't remember that one. (bit of laughter)

S (faint): There aren't many good students.

DB/S(?) (faint): Skillful means.

S (faint): They don't [three words inaudible]

RC (simultaneously): You know, the ego is much more interested in maintaining [couple words inaudible] so it makes sure that it makes it difficult.

S (very faint): [few words inaudible]

RC: Page 187, number 7.

[16½ second pause]

EVIL FORCES WILL ATTACK QUESTERS WHO ARE MAKING REAL ADVANCES

PB [V16, 25:3.480, RC rereads]: "Whoever has attained this blessed state would not be true to himself if he were not ardently happy to share it with others, if he were not ever ready to help them attain it too. And this desire extends universally to all without [RC adds: any] exception. He excludes none--how could he if the compassion which he feels be the real thing that comes with the realized unity of the Overself, that is, of the Christ-self, and not merely a temporary emotional masquerader! He himself could have written those noble words which Saint Paul wrote more than once in his epistles:"In Him there cannot be Jew or Greek, Barbarian, Scythian, but all are one man in Christ Jesus." Despite this, he soon finds that iron fetters have been placed on his feet. He finds, first, that only the few who are themselves seekers are at all interested; second, that even among this small number there are those who, because of personal dislikes, racial prejudice, social snobbery, or family antagonism, are unwilling to approach him; and third, that the mischievous agencies from occult spheres, through false reports and stimulated malice, delude a part of those who remain into creating an evil mental picture of him which is utterly unlike the actuality. For when such a man [really] begins to become an effective worker in this sacred cause, the evil forces begin their endeavours [RC reads: endeavour] to pull him down and thus stop him. They may inspire human instruments with fierce jealousy or personal hatred of him, or they may try other ways. It is their task to destroy the little good that he has done or to prevent whatever good he may yet do. It is an unfortunate but historic fact that many an aspirant is carried away by the false suggestions emanating from such poisoned sources."

[short pause]

JB: Well I know what I want to complain about now. I want to complain that we did-- it sounds like we have to believe in alien negative occult forces as if our own lethargy and indolence and egotism is not enough to accomplish those things. And that's what surprises me there.

AD: You better believe in both.

JB: Ok.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

AD: They'll be around, don't worry. And they won't be giving you any warning signals either. But they'll be there attacking you.

RC: One day PB started out a statement like three World Wars and essentially there's still no peace.

AD: Wait a minute, three?

RC: That's what I said. (some laughter) But I didn't [AD simultaneously: Well--] say anything out loud. And then he said, after must have been at least two minutes, he said "I deliberately said three." 'Cause I was thinking what century is he living in right now, (some laughter) like where is he coming from, is he all the way back?

AD: No, the third one's already started.

RC: Yeah, he said the-- the second one really didn't stop, just moved-- driven-- driven out of the physical world and back onto the subtle plane. But, he was-- he was like really pained when he started to talk about it. He said the thing that's so incredibly sinister is that most people don't realize that there's a war going on and that it's life or death. It was between ideas and what sort of inner states of being individuals would align themselves with. But it's just as real as any physical war.

[short pause]

AD: Anyway, Jonathan, these forces are always operative. Always. They don't pay attention to small fry. But like he said, soon as they start moving ahead, they attack. And they'll bring in the proper or the weapons according to the level of the person they're going to attack. They know the weak points. They're very well-versed and know just where the weak points is and they go right into it. But they're quite real, uh-huh.

RC: I don't know if it's just because I have Mars in Scorpio or what but, to me this context really makes the whole issue of character development much more important, that I find myself coming up with analogies of like, oh I don't know, so-- somebody wanting to play a certain sport and it being like the coach's responsibility to make sure he gets in shape before he goes on the field because if he doesn't he's going to get creamed.

AD: Oh I don't think that's Mars in Scorpio, I think that's philosophy.

RC: Ok.

[short pause]

BS: And now would you repeat it? I really have trouble hearing anything. (bit of laughter)

S: (Repeat.)

S (faint): Repeat what?

S (faint): The first (question). (bit of laughter)

BS: I got the [VM simultaneously: Maybe-- maybe it's the evil forces.] answer tonight, see, then I can get it straightened out. I mean I got the affirmation but I didn't hear what was being referred to.

VM/S(?) (very faint): [few words inaudible]

BS: Compassion to the fact. (bit of laughter)

RC: I just found myself like generating analogies in the course of reading through this material like-- There's one way to read about character development which is a bunch of lollipop stuff that people throw away on a regular basis. But there's another way of looking at it of like say-- say you want to play a certain sport or anything where there's a certain risk involved, it seems it becomes the-- the coach's responsibility to say I got to get this kid in shape if he really wants to play. Because if he goes out in the field in the shape that he's in he's going to get creamed. And it's really necessary, given the types of situations that are going to come (for/to) you if you do make progress in meditation that you are able to control your emotional reaction. [S, very faint: Ok.] You have purified your passions in some respects, because you're going to have plenty of possibilities to make bigger and better mistakes every step of the way. And, like some of the first quotes we read it seems it's not just dangerous to you but it can also be hurtful to other people. If you have any gathering of-- you know, any kind of unusual power that starts to come to you then the thoughts that you have and the feelings that you align yourself with become part of the world that the other people live in with you.

[short pause]

AD: You know in one of the-- the Sufi sermons, those that see they blame the teacher.

LR: No. (bit of laughter)

AD (faint): Maybe (I can) cognize this.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

JG: They throw rocks at him too, don't they?

S (simultaneously, faint): Maybe they could see.

AD: No.

S: They don't. (laughter)

AD: Johanna, you better go in the corner. (laughter, student words)

DB: Excuse me but, Randy, you know that--

JB (simultaneously, faint, possibly part of background): I think (you better) take (him soup).

DB: The one time--

AD (simultaneously): [couple words inaudible] Sufis every day (bit of laughter) in general, certain step of the Sufis, certain dervishes. But that's not generally the case. What they really mean-- what they really mean is that the teacher did not sufficiently prepare the person for what he was going to encounter, and that's what he was talking about when he said the coaches have to get you ready for [couple words inaudible] And, like the example when he just spoke about certain occult forces might be operative and Jonathan says he's got enough to handle with his ego and he's got to also deal with these things, well, that's-- that's the way the cookie crumbles. (laughter) Well--

DB: Um--

S (very faint): (And now what'd you say?)

DB: Randy, the-- the conversation that you were relating to prior, the third-- three World Wars and so forth [RC, faint: Right, uh-hm.] is most people don't realize that the war's still going on, the battle of light and [student assents, faint] darkness. Why is it-- or is-- was the conversation pursued to the point where a discussion was-- was made concerning why it seems that, well, it's always a defensive response to them, I mean, you know, we had the Second World War and killed some of those people and drove them back to wherever they were before. And, you know, they come out through their works. I-- I just, you know, it seems like a-- Obviously I don't understand what-- what is going on here because you can't-- how do you win, I mean--

LR: What's your question David? (bit of laughter)

DB: Why is it that the good guys always have their defensive team out? (laughter, student words)

S (faint): Why can't you be a tackle?

DB: Well, oh I mean, you know this is obviously part of some plan but, I mean what-- yes. Who's the ref, I mean-- (laughter) I'm sorry, I don't-- I don't mean to be flippant about this but, I mean this is a very serious thing.

RC (simultaneously): The good guys have some guys on the field, I mean they got-- they got Sistine Chapel ceilings and, you know--

S (simultaneously): Louder.

RC: You get Sistine Chapel ceilings, you get artwork around, you got teachings, you got books that are available in volumes to people that have never been available before. For $1.95 you can buy books that guys used to walk across China for.

DB: Right, but I mean, for-- forgive my-- forgive my naiveté but you can't take a-- a book on Huang-Po and throw it at Moscow or, you know, whatever, I mean, I appreciate your point, I mean in-- and--

AH: David are-- are you asking, can the-- can the evil forces ever be vanquished? [DB: Well--] Or is that like-- Or how come, how come it always seems as though we're-- have to be paranoid about that.

RC: I don't know if paranoia is the right word. Certainly have to have a-- our own intelligence service to--

S: I mean--

DB: I mean based-- I mean based on-- based on the-- you know, headline for the last twenty years, they don't really care whether the planet is in one piece or several little ones. I mean--

RC: They can fail.

DB: Well, you see that's true, I mean--

S: What's "they"?

DB: Yeah that's the point, I mean--

S: Bad guys.

RC (simultaneously): First of all we had--

S: The bad guys you said? Is that what you-- I just didn't understand [S simultaneously: Yeah.] your reference yet.

DB: Yes, they, bad guys.

S: Bad guys.

S (faint): You want--

DB: Whoever these occult spirits, so forth. I mean they're showing up.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

LR/S(?) (faint): [couple words inaudible] right here.

S (simultaneously): But there's no rationality to that, I mean how-- you're speaking as though they should be rational.

DB: I'm not saying that they should be rational.

RC: No I mean just think of (Dave) [one word inaudible] well-developed self-centered ego and give it a physical body.

LR: Yeah, is this the good guys here?

DB (simultaneously): No, no I'm sorry, this is-- I-- I mean that's bad enough but that doesn't give you a-- that doesn't give you a Second World War.

S: But why do you think that we're the good guys? (laughter)

DB: We're reading the book. (laughter)

S: Yeah but-- and the reason why there are wars, because of karma. [RG simultaneously: 'Cause what?] Until we understand about compassion, etc, there are going to be wars. [DB simultaneously: Yeah well--] I want to be a good guy so--

BS: Isn't it also possible that this is be-- I don't know enough about these forces, but is it possible that those that are capable of it are fighting this war on the subtle level against these forces that are also on the subtle level? [RC simultaneously: We've read (one/two words inaudible)] And our character here on the material level will have to be improved. While-- while mankind in general is at a certain level, they're going to be more susceptible possibly to evil forces than, quote, "the good one". And it just seems to me that the battle primarily is fought up there, but I may be-- and here too of course but primarily if it's taken to the subtle realm, you can't fight it physically here until character is improved here.

RC: Yeah, it seems to me that actually improving your character on this level is engaging in that war.

BS: Well yeah, see, I meant them both.

RG: Yeah.

BS: But it would bring in the subtle forces--

RC: You're deciding who and what is going to live right here right now. You're deciding on moment-by-moment basis what is going to live right here, right now. [S, faint: Yeah.] And it's going to act itself out through you or it's not. And, seems everybody's got the same responsibility. See like, Blake [CDA simultaneously: But in that--] wrote a lot of stuff about how he could never be a social revolutionary because he realized that the only revolutionary war that had any meaning was fought by each individual within himself from the moment of birth until the moment of ultimate union.

CDA: Randy when you put it in that context that we're fighting the war ourselves, within ourselves, would you apply that to way-- the way we speak of the Dragon, the-- that is only perceived through a human entity, that-- [RC simultaneously: Yeah.] are you-- do you think that where this war is taking place is there?

RC: Well I think that's part of it. I also think that there are-- I mean there are people who's karmic development has been such that they're sort of committed to working for their vision of the Good which you might think is somewhat inverted vision. But I think it's both.

S (faint): Yeah.

JB: Wasn't Satan the best quarterback God had? (bit of laughter) I mean isn't that why our defensive team's always out? (laughter) No I mean-- I'm don't know how far we're allowed to go afield on that. (laughter)

S (amidst laughter): Right.

S (amidst laughter): Ok.

S (amidst laughter): Randy--

BS: Now that's beyond the limit. (more laughter, student words)

S: That's a nice one.

RC (simultaneously): Well I guess I just wouldn't-- I wouldn't accept the-- the premise that it's always defensive. I mean I [JB simultaneously: Oh ok.] think there's plenty of-- there's plenty of creative positive activity that's been done and even now continues to be done.

JB: But the two things you mentioned, Blake and the Sistine Chapel, both happen to stand in relationship to a certain belief in the historic Satan, a fall, [RC simultaneously: Yeah.] and which in a way explains the existence of evil.

RC (simultaneously): Yeah, Blake took a direct confrontation with it.

JB: Utter-- they were totally preoccupied with Satan.

RC: You ever see Blake's painting of Michael chaining the Dragon?

S: Yeah, (uh-hm).

RC: Very, very incredible painting. It's interesting because Satan is filled with terror, and--

S (faint): [one word inaudible] say what?

RC: Satan. Satan's eyes are just filled with terror as Michael the archangel tied a chain around him. And he has a very interesting confronta-- his personal confrontation takes place in the second book of Milton which is a poem in two books, where he turns and meets his own specter and then the spirit, an inspired dialogue that-- the poetic parallel of the painting.

AH: Yeah one-- one analysis of the Second World War that I read and heard about is like these forces that are always at war on the subtle level actually descended into people in a very real way, they (would--) and the struggle was fought here at the physical level. And the forces of good overcame the forces of evil in World War II, at this level. But the battle goes on always at the subtle level. So it's just that-- like the Second World War was actually one time when those forces descended into the physical plane. It had to be-- it had to be acted out here in a very dramatic and worldwide way.

RC: And qui-- PB quotes (Marshall) [one word inaudible] saying that wisdom-- previously he hadn't believed in the existence of evil but even what he'd seen in the battlefield he had to recognize that the existence of evil right in the world.

AH: And the comment that you made earlier pertaining to the quote. The Second World War didn't-- didn't s-- didn't win the battle at the subtle level. It drove it back there. Was that the point?

S (faint): Yeah.

AH: Or--

RC (simultaneously): Yeah it drove it off the physical plane back [AH assents] to its own level.

AH: But it's still going on there.

S (simultaneously, faint): Oh yeah.

AH: (Because--)

RC (simultaneously): Yeah that-- that was-- I mean that was where it was really moving just watch-- was more watching the way PB said it than actually what he said when he just-- It's like excruciating for him to observe how sinister the situation was, that most people didn't realize that was going on. [S: Yeah.] And that they thought-- we think we can just stroll around in [S: Peace.] peace time.

EC: Not only wouldn't they-- didn't they want to face but they didn't face that they were a part of it. Because there are quite a few acquaintances that I knew during the First-- the Second World War that made huge amounts of black market money and never-- because of Germany-- and never never would face the part they played in that. They played a-- they played their part. I-- I used to say I played my own part because I-- I didn't speak out against it when I knew. And I enjoyed living the good life no matter what was going on too. But I watched that scene and a lot of those people are very respectable civic minded citizens of Long Beach today.

S: Yeah.

EC: Aren't-- they're part of that rank too. [RC simultaneously: It's interesting, what--] They don't face their part.

RC: Aurobindo wrote a letter, I can't remember now exactly what it was but-- He wrote a letter to some of his close disciples when he had made the decision that he was going to turn his-- he was going to use his psychic and spiritual powers actively in opposition to Hitler. And he said that, because of that some of the activities that he'd been doing for them he wasn't going to be able to carry on as intensely as before and he needed to concentrate the force there. And, he said two things, he said he realized that this meant that he was going to have to incarnate on Earth many many more times than he would if he hadn't made this choice because he would get involved in the karmic consequences of the results of the activity. (That) was one thing. And the second thing he said was that he didn't think by any means the Allies were the good guys. Simply that the agency that was operating with Hitler was so evil and so [EC assents] powerful that it had to be stopped.

EC: Right.

RC: It was shortly after that, interesting to me, it was shortly after that that Hitler stopped listening to his advisers and started having incredibly powerful intuitions [three/few words inaudible]

[students assent, faint]

S (faint): War.

S: Uh-huh.

S: Randy, I just would like to try to have some questions in, just--

S (very faint): Yeah.

[9 second pause]

AD (very faint): It's true, Aurobindo (regularly) said this was a struggle between good and evil. You don't have to complicate it.

S: Yeah.

AH: You know just to reinforce the-- that discussion about the confrontation being really a subtle one in World War II. A short time ago I read a book, autobiography by Hitler's architect named Speer. [Note: Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich (Memoirs).] And, he described the way Hitler worked on him and others. And it was very much in an occult way. He-- and if anyone's interested in that-- in that it was-- it was actually very frightening his description of what was going on evenings the time he spent with Hitler.

RC: Yeah that was--

S: Yeah.

RC: That one story you told me was interesting, I-- The guy-- I guess this guy Speer actually recognized that Hitler was at least demented if not possessed.

AH: Well he-- he understood intuitively. He was intelligent enough to understand that something was working through Hitler and working on all of them. But he couldn't resist temptation (to be) [RC assents, faint] the architect for the new-- for the new world.

RC: Yeah. Hitler had offered him the position of being chief architect of the Nazi's new world. And even though he knew his boss was probably crazy he couldn't resist being the architect of the new world.

[students assents, very faint]

JG: There's a book that Richard Platek once pointed out to me and which I gave PB to skim through because I wanted to know whether it was true, it's called The Spear of Destiny. [Note: Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear of Destiny.]

S (very faint): Right.

JG: And, where it is described that Hitler was with an inner circle conducting black magic and they had human sacrifice and a whole very bad-- very bad scene. And I-- I didn't know whether it was true and PB more or less confirmed that-- that he was possessed by the wor-- by evil forces but that also much of it was personal in the description.

[12¼ second pause]

RC: And so it seems that (if we) get back to the quote that opened up our discussion. Um-- [10¾ second pause] Certainly works in terms of the-- the internal images that we form of one another. Or people who might be able to do us some good.

SD: Randy, doesn't this quote also [one/two words inaudible] that earlier quote where he talks about how one should respond to criticism and so on, that one way that these forces are trying to bring down this person who's had an attainment is just by the stirring of antagonism but that has the extra role of tempting this person into resentment and then therefore losing his attainment.

RC (faint): Uh-hm.

[students assent, faint]

AH: I have another question. Since-- we described to some extent the struggle that is at the subtle level and from time to time manifests dramatically here. But w-- what is it that-- what is that w-- that we do in terms of improving our character? Like is that like the battle at the subtle level in any sense?

RC: I definitely think so, [S simultaneously: Yeah. You know I--] there's a choice right now whether there's going to be an angry man sitting here or a calm man sitting here. I have to make that choice and I have to make it stick.

AH: And that's happening at the subtle level to some extent.

RC: Well, yeah. Yeah because, it's either the angry man or the calm man that's going to express himself through my body. The angry man might hit somebody.

LH: You know, no-- no doubt there are these-- these entities and-- and things that are-- are purely subtle but I think there's a tendency when we talk about these things to my-- mythologize them. That subtle level, that's our mind [students assent] that we're talking about.

RC: Like you must have experienced that-- especially-- I don't think I could put my hands on it right now but especially any time when you develop any sensitivity in meditation, very difficult for you to tell when you're with other people. It's very difficult for you to tell whether what you're feeling starts with you or starts with them. [student assents] Like who got mad first in that situation (or--) And that's-- that's another thing in terms of the-- the disciplining of the emotion part of the-- At least the emotions that you have are the emotions that are yours.

AH: Randy do you think one conclusion might be to what we're discussing is, if we're not willing to attend to the struggle at the subtle level, we're going to have to attend to it at the physical level.

RC: Well that seems in terms of the exercise, the pragmatic stuff. (If) you can't control your thoughts, you can't-- like you-- One of the earlier quotes, it's much easier to exercise will than to change the way you feel about something. [student assents, faint] That you can make yourself not hit somebody but you can't make yourself not dislike him-- I mean not like them. But if you start out by not hitting them, then you've shoved it back on the subtle plane and now you can deal with not liking them, see if there's any rationality behind that. But that stands as straightforward an example as I [student assents] can think of.

[short pause]

RC: Or I can not steal from them but I might not be able to stop envying them. So first I stop stealing. Then I can work on not envying them.

AH: I'm sure you remember the catechism that some of us were subjected to. They say that you can sin in three ways, you sin through thought, words, and deeds.

RC: Yes.

AH: And that was always a big mystery for me because I couldn't understand how you could ever stop doing it.

S (faint): (Ok/Uh-hm). Yeah.

AH: You know, Vic?

S (faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): Yeah.

AH: Remember, Vic? (laughter)

VM: Real mystery. (more laughter)

[15 second pause]

S: I got it. (laughter)

[few seconds of faint background student talking]

[40½ second pause]

ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON CHARACTER AND EMOTION

RC: Or maybe-- maybe some of these are dealing with environmental influences that follow him (around). [9 second pause] I'll try a few of them. [13 second pause] And I'm understanding (as/this) environmental influence as being the subtle and the physical realms. Uh-- [16¼ second pause] Now--

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "Suggestions from our own past, from our surroundings, or from other minds are continually coming to us."

[13½ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:1.289, RC reading]: "It is [RC reads: It's] true that [RC adds: the] environment contributes to the molding [RC reads: shaping] of character but not true that it creates or even dominates [RC adds: the] character. Thought and will are linked with our own reincarnational past. Character can be improved by effort and Grace. If we will [only] attend to the first and persistently carry out the inner work required on ourselves, destiny will attend to the second and not seldom remove the outer obstacles or improve the outer environment in the process."

[16 second pause, flipping of pages]

PB [V14, 2:1.199 & Persp., Ch. 22 #31, RC reading]: "You may recognize the voice of wisdom when having to make a decision by the fact that it proceeds out of [RC adds: a] deep inner calm, out of utter tranquillity, whereas impulse is frequently born in exaggerated enthusiasm or undue excitement."

[11½ second pause]

S (incredibly faint): Can you reread that?

RC (faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): Yeah.

RC/S(?) (faint): Yeah.

PB [V14, 2:1.199 & Persp., Ch. 22 #31, RC rereads]: "You may recognize the voice of wisdom when having to make a decision by the fact that it proceeds out of deep inner calm, out of utter tranquillity, whereas impulse is frequently born in exaggerated enthusiasm or undue excitement."

RC: I think that's related to Michael's question and David was how do you know-- how do-- what makes you think we're the good guys. If you want to [short pause] be able to tell when guidance is something to listen to or something to be suspicious of, and he's saying that it's the voice of wisdom that'll come out of a deep inner calm and outer tranquility (where it--) if it's filled with a lot of emotional excitement, it might come from some other source.

[47 second pause]

PB [V5, 6:1.291, RC reading]: "The victim of exterior suggestion is never quite an innocent victim, for his own quota of consent must [also] be present."

[15 second pause]

PB [V6, 9:2.20, RC reading]: "At any given moment, a man thinks and acts according to, and as a result of, his whole mental and physical experience of life and his whole character and nature. These cannot be limited to the single short life on earth [RC adds: which] he now knows, for that will not explain many of his tendencies and traits. They must include all his previous lives."

S (very faint): Well, would you read that?

PB [V6, 9:2.20, RC rereads]: "At any given moment, a man thinks and acts according to, and as a result of, his whole mental and physical experience of life and his whole character and nature. These cannot be limited to the single short life on earth he now knows, for that will not explain many of his tendencies and traits. They must include all his previous lives."

[14¾ second pause]

DB: Randy? You know that-- the quote you read just before that about this quota of consent, I think-- doesn't that seem to really point to the necessity of the calmness that he talks about? Because the space between-- in some exterior suggestion and our consent it seems to me can sometimes be so small as to be virtually, you know, indistinguishable without the perspective of some sort of calm inner position to see the whole thing right. Don't really have the opportunity to find out whether you're agreeing with something or not if-- Do you see what I'm saying?

RC: Yeah I think that's true whether it's a suggest-- whether-- in this case he's talking about an exterior suggestion. But I think that that's as true about an interior one as well.

DB: Oh yeah, I'm--

RC: If you can't stand in calm relationship to your own impulses then you certainly won't be able to someone else's and I think that's where the level of consent comes.

DB (faint): I-I'm-I-- yes, I-- my [few words inaudible] Yeah.

RC: That seems to me where the consent comes in. Given that I'm inwardly disposed that way anyway.

S (faint): Right.

RC: "Well, you just brought it up. I wouldn't do it if I was alone but sure." (bit of laughter)

S (very faint): What did he say?

[20¼ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:1.292, RC reading]: "It is perfectly true that environment does count, and often heavily, in the sum of life. But it is also true that if one's faith is strong enough or if one's understanding is deep enough, the quest can be pursued effectively anywhere, be it a slum tenement or a stockbroker's office. It is easier to pursue it in some places, harder in others, but the law of compensation always operates to even matters out. If there is a total giving-up of oneself to this higher aim, sooner or later there will be a total result, whatever the external circumstances may be."

[short pause]

S: Randy, where is that from?

RC: Page 109, number 368.

[15 second pause]

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "There are suggestions put into his head by his surroundings, the inclinations saddled on his shoulders by heredity, joined with the basic character brought over from past birth."

[Audio File 1983 0112a Ends]

[Audio File 1983 0112b Begins]

PB [V5, 6:3.20, RC reading]: "He may become so sensitive as a consequence of meditation that other people's [RC reads: person's] thoughts, feelings, or passions may reflect themselves into his own nature temporarily when he is physically near them or mentally dealing with them. In such cases he will probably mistake the result for his own, thus expressing what is really alien to his [RC adds: own] mind or acting outside of his [RC adds: own] individual pattern of life. This is particularly true when a strong emotion like anger is directed against him. He may then feel instinctively angry with the other person. Unwittingly, he may become disloyal to the Ideal merely through being ignorant of what is happening psychically, and [RC adds: by being] unguarded against it."

AH: Could you do that one again please?

PB [V5, 6:3.20, RC rereads]: "He may become so sensitive as a consequence of meditation that other people's thoughts, feelings, or passions may reflect themselves into his own nature temporarily when he is physically near them or mentally dealing with them. In such cases he will probably mistake the result for his own, thus expressing what is really alien to his [RC adds: own] mind or acting outside of his [RC adds: own] individual pattern of life. This is particularly true when a strong emotion like anger is directed against him. He may then feel instinctively angry with the other person. Unwittingly, he may become disloyal to the Ideal merely through being ignorant of what is happening psychically, and [RC adds: by being] unguarded against it."

[short pause]

AH: And what is happening psychically is-- is it that the unguarded person is experiencing someone else's emotionality? If--

RC: Thoughts, feelings, or passions is what he's got here. Passions. Interesting.

JG: Is it? (laughter)

S (very faint): Only projection.

DB: Wouldn't it-- wouldn't it be a question of--

S (very faint): Both are (interesting).

S (very faint): (Uh-hm.)

AH (simultaneously): (Alright/Hi).

DB: Randy, isn't it something like [RC, faint: I don't know.] you're-- you become sensitized to say someone's anger. (bit of laughter) And-- but the anger that you then experience is your own. [RC: Uh-hm.] I mean there's a-- you're sensitive to the other person's but it's resonance and it's--

S (very faint): Yeah.

SD: Well isn't resonance a good-- a good analogy there. That vibration coming from outside finds a corresponding receptacle there and then you have your own vibration inside.

DB: Yes. Um-- But it's-- the problem is that what triggered it, see I mean that's-- that's the whole thing, I mean generally you get angry at somebody because you think you've been offended or slighted or hurt one way or another. Here there's-- that possibility didn't go on. It's much more on a-- what is it, the sympathetic nervous system, kind of an unconscious response. I mean really unconscious.

AH: [one/two words inaudible] just--

DR (simultaneously): And except only for the special case that this is so those-- those who develop a sensitivity from achievement in meditation. You know, I think that's pretty specific [three/few words inaudible]

AH: Well I think anyone-- anyone who meditates regularly develops some of those kind of sensitivities.

S (very faint): Yes.

S (faint): [one word inaudible] the sensitivity is awareness of that fact that he's over-- that (he's) overstepping.

[students assent, very faint]

S: [few words inaudible]

AH (simultaneously): Not really a possibility.

DR (simultaneous with S): No that-- that's what I think, I think it's so specific. I think it's a specific quote for a certain sensitivity. Otherwise not-- [S simultaneously: Do you mean-- I--] I mean otherwise you could blame your anger on everybody else all the time. (bit of laughter)

BS: I do anyway.

DB: No I mean, haven't you-- haven't you ever like-- like this happened-- I've heard of people that this has happened to. (bit of laughter) They'll be in-- [S: Right.] they'll be like in a-- in a crowded room or something and somebody just will-- will walk by them who's like furious or something or other and he can feel it and then there's a response, he's like-- you don't even know the guy and could care less what the whole thing's about but there's (like/that) kind of [S: (Right.)] awareness of like what's going on.

S (faint): Yeah.

S (simultaneously, faint): Yeah.

DB: You know, you-- all-- all of a sudden you find yourself angry for no reason. Something like that.

S (faint): Yeah.

S (faint): Yeah.

S (very faint): Go ahead.

S (very faint): Go ahead.

AD: What he's speaking about is a mind that's thinned the thoughts, has less thoughts, might be sensitive to an atmosphere. But for-- (for/to) all of us or most of us that wouldn't apply [one/two words inaudible] Your mind has to be sensitive. That means less thoughts. So if you notice, if there's ten percent less thoughts then you have a sensitive mind. Then you'll be aware of someone else's anger or let's say become aware of someone else's anger. But generally it's your own anger. Don't be looking to throw it onto someone else. He says sensitive.

PB [V5, 6:1.299, RC reading]: "Until he has attained that [RC reads: the] inner strength which can concentrate thoughts and dominate emotions, it will be foolish to say that [RC adds: his] environment does not count and that he can mingle with society as freely as he can desert it. Without this attainment, he will be weakened by most of them or strengthened by a few of them. [RC reads: Without this attainment, he will be affected by people and surroundings. He will be weakened by most of them, strengthened by a few of them.]"

[41½ second pause]

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "How many of his thoughts and feelings are really entrants from outside, picked up or sent to him by other men and women?"

[1 minute 4¾ second pause]

RC: I guess that's all the ones I have right now on the environment. Should we go on with where we left off on the one-- on love or go back to where we left off in the last class? Does it matter? [short pause] Or maybe since we started the ones on love we might as well read them.

[9¾ second pause]

DR: Randy, I just have a comment to make about the last few quotes. Do you think that some of the points, that some of those quotes might have been to provide some kind of method for showing a way of getting a distance from one's own thoughts? And in fact if a lot of them are not even originated in one's mind that, you know, what kind of credence do you give thoughts that pass through the mind.

RC: Yeah.

DR: They could be coming from almost anywhere.

RC: Yeah.

DR: Do you think that's the context here?

RC: I definitely think so, yeah, I think that's like one of the things that prompts a person to start thinking about examining their thoughts, feelings, passions and so on and so on. If I have to pay the bill, I'd at least like to know that--

DB: You're not getting counterfeit goods.

RC: No but, at least that I am, you know, that-- yeah, I wanted it (revealed).

DR (simultaneously): At least it's my phone bill. (bit of laughter)

DB(?): Right.

DR: Is that--

RC: I don't want to get killed for somebody else's bad driving. (bit of laughter) No it seems to be linked up with individuation though, don't you think David, like in a lot of the Jungian terminology in terms of projecting onto people or responding to the projections that people put onto you as opposed to entering into the process of individuation seem to be similar ideas.

DR: And just-- and just the lessons of-- of mentalism, you know, some-- some way to see the-- the thinking process as-- as objective, as much as you look at the-- the rest of the world as objective to some-- for instance whether you are looking at it instead of a-- that sharp division between what I think and what-- what everything else is, that it all gets put onto a similar level by-- by that kind of idea.

RC: Yeah I remember the first time when I was a kid that like your parents-- too many of the way that your parents feel about things then like invested right in the tone of voice or the way that they talk about them. And, I remember the first time as a kid that I noticed that I started to have a feeling about something that I really didn't have a feeling about at all. I didn't have any opinion about it at all. But there was this emotion associated with it and I noticed that when-- the emotion of my mother's voice, the way that she talks about it. And it was like in that separation of realizing well here's this feeling and here's this thing, and, I don't know if they go together or don't go together, I've never really thought about it or felt about it. It was an interesting situation in terms of-- I think as children we really do participate in at least the family psyche--thoughts, feelings, and passions, that--

DR: Yeah and then-- and then the other side too where you just-- you know, you might have a thought and it might feel as though it's your own and even the opinion might feel as though it's your own. And you might have a certain certitude about it because you think it and it might not be yours at all. I mean it could have come from some family consciousness or something.

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

[9¼ second pause]

AH: Yeah it's increasingly difficult though to make a distinction between what would constitute your thoughts as apart from a family consciousness or a group consciousness. You know, where does this-- where does this specific individual mind divide that I-- that I call my own very one, you know?

RC: (Oh/Well)--

DR (simultaneously): That'll be very hard to pick out, yeah.

AH: Yeah. Like we really don't have one apart from the one that our mothers and fathers and our society gave us until we work at it, you know.

S (very faint): Yeah.

JG: No that's not quite true, wouldn't karma be that what is really yours?

AH: The karma is not [S: Yeah.] an island of individuation. Karma's a nexus of events and other people and circumstance. Like--

JG: Yes but if you-- if-- as PB-- that one quote, didn't it say how many thoughts are really sent to you by other men and woman.

AH/S(?) (faint): Yeah.

JG: We don't know but karmically you have set up certain-- a certain way of thinking, that's the only way I can think of something is mine.

AH: Yes. I was thinking of that when Randy mentioned the notion about counterfeit goods, he said-- or David mentioned. He said, have an individual mind stream that's karmically determined. And you got to deal with that. I mean that has to be unraveled. But you don't really have to-- But I don't know what it means to talk about as-- that as an-- as individual.

PD: Why separate that from the circumstances that you're living in though? [AH: Yes.] I mean how can-- that's such an artificial separation. [AH simultaneously: It seems so--] The stream of karma is the circumstances of your life (on/in) one hand.

AH (faint): Yeah.

PD: The very parents, childhood, etc, that you're going through is-- it's a nexus of relationships like Andrew was saying.

BS: And where would the source of your thoughts-- where do you think the source is?

THE INTERACTION WITH ANOTHER PERSON IS CAPABLE OF EVOKING IN YOU THOSE TENDENCIES THAT DUPLICATE THE THOUGHT THEY ARE HAVING

AD (simultaneously, faint): I think [PD simultaneously: Well--] it might be better if you put it this way, that the interaction that exists between people or among people is capable of evoking in you those tendencies which will duplicate the thought that someone else has. And not to think that you're just taking over somebody else's thought.

[students assent, faint]

DR: Could you go over that? I didn't really catch (the whole thing).

S (faint): Yeah.

AD (faint): Through the interaction that exists among people, the tendencies that are within you will usually be evoked into operation and that would be your thought. But someone could provoke those tendencies by directing his thought to you. It isn't that you receive his thought. It's your own thought that is duplicating, alright, what is coming to you from outside, so-called outside.

VM: Isn't this what Jung termed psychic induction, Anthony, or others maybe have used the terminology too, it would certainly be--

AD: I didn't-- I didn't use the term psychic induction because I wanted to be very precise and point out that the vasanas or tendencies are yours. [VM simultaneously: Well I thought--] They can be, they can be provoked into activity and then you could refer to it as your thought.

S: See--

VM: Well, what I thought was so good about the example of psychic induction, maybe I'm entirely misled here 'cause that-- In the physical example of induction, the actual electrical wires are in no way truly in electrical contact with each other, they don't actually touch. One generates a field, the other picks up the field and then in turn--

AD (simultaneously): I know, Vic, it doesn't have those associations (AD laughs) but we make them.

VM (simultaneously): Yeah well, to me-- (laughter) to me it does. And, that's why I thought it was particularly apropos to your description. You like our excessive [one/two words inaudible] (laughter) I could bring my inductors. (bit more laughter, student words)

DR: I see, so in that way, if you could-- we described it, I'm sorry Bert.

BS: That's alright, go ahead.

DR: If-- if you describe--

AD (simultaneously): I mean he's speaking of things at a coarse level, you understand that. [student assents] He's speaking of things that go-- are going on at a coarse level.

LR: Vic or PB?

DR: So uh--

VM: Oh me, oh. (bit of laughter)

DR: So in that way you can somehow deny the origin of being your own but still it's your responsibility in the way he describes it.

AD (simultaneously, faint): Yeah, yeah. It's your responsibility because you have to understand that those tendencies, that disposition is within you. [DR assents] Otherwise it-- there won't be any response on your (part).

[short pause]

LD: But wouldn't the-- the vasana be primary to the circumstances they get projected upon or else it seems you've fallen to a-- like a materialistic determinism which says the circumstances determine or partially determine the way I feel and think. And it seems vice versa, that the way I feel and think are going to determine the circumstances. I didn't--

AD: I don't know-- I don't know what you said Louis.

LD: Well, never mind. I don't know.

AD: I just was talking about those quotes, [LD simultaneously: Yeah, I was too.] that the quotes were concerned about possibility of thoughts that (you have and/you're having) not be your own. And I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm just saying that you have to make clarity here by recognizing that (you/it) could be near or let's you could be with someone and he would be thinking certain thoughts. And it isn't that these thoughts come to you and then you take them over bodily. It's that they evoke in you those tendencies which will produce the thought in you that's similar to the one he had. And we're speaking of all this going on at a coarse level, not at a subtle level.

S (faint): Yeah.

AD: So you can be next to certain people and, alright, the smell of the beer and the pot belly and all that will provoke a desire for beer in you.

S (faint): Oh (fascinating). (laughter)

VM (amidst laughter): [one/two words inaudible] better than [couple words inaudible]

LD (simultaneously): I was just referring to in other places he seems to say that environment, hereditary, things like that, etc, are factors but they're not the primary factor or else you'd fall into this, like I said, materialistic determinism. And he warns against that in quite a few places. Those are factors but the primary factor originates in you. That's all-- that's all I'm trying to state, that in other places he seems to put that in perspective and say those are secondary factors, the people, the environment, which I thought related to those quotes.

[21¼ second pause]

CDA (faint): So how [couple words inaudible] done Lou?

LD: Yeah (hon).

S (very faint): (I see.)

CDA (faint): I was just trying to ask how you would-- what distinction you would make here in terms of this conversation that's [one word inaudible] about that.

DB/S(?): (Ok.)

CDA (faint): I mean is that [few words inaudible] by actual, you know--

AD: Well the other one was, he was speaking about if your mind is sensitive because of the meditation which you've been carrying on, which means that a lot of your defenses, artificial and natural defenses, you know, like got [one/two words inaudible] It's like there are (always/all these) [one word inaudible] in your mind, it's hard for someone else's thought to get in.

CDA (faint): Yeah right. (laughter)

VM: I think less defense and good offense [one word inaudible]

AD (simultaneously, faint): But, when your mind is more-- more at ease and quiet and there's [one/two words inaudible] you know, thoughts glide very slowly and more gently, then someone else's thought can be [one word inaudible] can come in and [couple words inaudible] and arouse certain tendencies in you to the one that they hold.

CDA (simultaneously): And that-- and that's not--

AD: That's more subtle.

CDA: That's not--

AD (faint): But the coarse one, the last two or three where he refers to the influence of environment and all that, it's obvious to an art-- you know, a-- you know, an artist or a composer will try to arrange the sound or the species of sound in such a way that it will help evoke within you the order of you-- an order of fee-- of unit feelings. In other words, these feelings are evoked, each-- but let's think of them as units of feelings. They're evoked in a certain order and progression and then there arises in you what the composer wanted to reproduce in you. In a similar way the same thing would happen when let's say you were in some environment, a slum area and you're with certain people, the same thing can and does happen right out in the open.

[15½ second pause]

LOVE AND RENUNCIATION

VM: Shall we proceed?

AD: Yeah let's-- let's proceed.

VM: This is one we heard before but it seems worth doing again, it comes up in the sequence.

PB [V5, 6:2.106, VM reading]: "How many unreflective and selfish persons have uttered the words"I love you" to someone else--wife, friend or teacher--when what they actually if unconsciously meant was, "I love myself and use you to serve my interests or to satisfy my feelings.""

[23¾ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.136, RC reading]: ""Hatred ceaseth not by hatred," declared the Buddha, "It ceaseth (laughter) [VM: Stops. (more laughter)] only by compassionate love." This counsel is much the same as Jesus' injunction to love our enemies. Many people, who wish to do what is ethically right and feel that their best course is to follow the ethics prescribed by such great souls as Jesus or Buddha, get confused here and wallow in sentimentality under the mistaken impression that they are following these counsels.

"But the sentimentalists misunderstand Jesus if they believe that he taught us to practise outwardly and practically [RC adds: an] unconditional and universal forgiveness. On the contrary, he made repentance the prerequisite of such visible forgiveness. Those who refuse to repent and persist in wrongdoing must be inwardly and silently forgiven, but otherwise left to suffer the karma of their actions. What is really meant is that we should be big-hearted enough not to exclude our enemies from our goodwill to all mankind and that we should be big-minded enough to comprehend that they are only acting according to their own experience and knowledge of life. This is to"forgive them for they know not what they do." When we hold them in thought and when we image them with feeling we must do so without anger, without hatred, without bitterness.

"All doctrines which are based on hatred emanate from the blackest of evil forces. Hatred is always their indicator just as compassion is always an indicator of the good forces. By practising great-hearted compassion, we help to counteract whatever ill-feelings have been generated. Therefore let us not at any time or under any provocation lose ourselves in emotions of resentment, bitterness, and hatred. We must not hate the most misguided of our enemies. We may oppose their false ideas resolutely, we may hate their sins, but not the sinners. We must pity even the most violent of them and not spoil our own characters by accepting their example. We must not sink to the low level of seeking revenge. The desire for revenge is a primitive one. It is apposite to the tiger and reptile kingdom, but in the human kingdom it should be replaced by the desire for justice.

"These two attributes--hatred and pity--stand at opposite poles to each other: the one as being the worst of all human vices and the other as being the best of all human virtues. This, then, is a further reason why we must take care not to fall into the all-too-easy habit of hating enemies. For they are still members of this great human family of ours, still creatures planted like us on this woeful planet both to learn its immediate lessons and to share its ultimate redemption."

[short pause]

AD: Well Michael that answered your question. You can find out who the good guys are and who are the bad guys.

[34¼ second pause]

S (faint): I think I knew that was there though, Dave. They're the favorites involved.

RC (faint): Will you save a seat for (her)?

S: Pardon?

RC (faint): Would you save a seat for her? (bit of laughter)

VM/S(?) (faint): Yeah that's Linda, I understand.

LR (faint): I'd like to hear it again.

S (very faint): Yeah, right.

PB [V5, 6:2.136, RC rereads part of]: ""Hatred ceaseth not…"

S (very faint): Oh. (bit of laughter)

HE: Well you said do it again.

PB [V5, 6:2.136, RC rereads]: ""Hatred ceaseth not (laughter) by hatred," declared the Buddha, "It ceaseth only by compassionate love." This counsel is [much] the same as Jesus' injunction to love our enemies. Many people, who wish to do what is ethically right and [RC adds: who] feel that their best course is to follow the ethics prescribed by such great souls as Jesus or Buddha, get confused here and wallow in sentimentality under the mistaken impression that they are following these counsels.

"But the sentimentalists misunderstand Jesus if they believe that he taught us to practise outwardly and practically [RC adds: an] unconditional and universal forgiveness. On the contrary, he made repentance the prerequisite of such visible forgiveness. Those who refuse to repent and persist in wrongdoing must be inwardly and silently forgiven, but otherwise left to suffer the karma of their actions. What is really meant is that we should be big-hearted enough not to exclude our enemies from our goodwill to all mankind and that we should be big-minded enough to comprehend that they are only acting according to their own experience and knowledge of life. This is to"forgive them for they know not what they do." When we hold them in thought and when we image them with feeling we must do so without anger, without hatred, without bitterness.

"All doctrines which are based on hatred emanate from the blackest of evil forces. Hatred is always their indicator just as compassion is [always] an indicator of the good forces. By practising great-hearted compassion, we help to counteract whatever ill-feelings have been generated. Therefore let us not at any time or under any provocation lose ourselves in emotions of resentment, bitterness, and hatred. We must not hate the most misguided of our enemies. We may oppose their false ideas resolutely, we may hate their sins, but not the sinners. We must pity even the most violent of them and not spoil our own characters by accepting their example. We must not sink to the low level of seeking revenge. The desire for revenge is a primitive one. It is apposite to the tiger and reptile kingdom, but in the human kingdom it should be replaced by the desire for justice.

"These two attributes--hatred and pity--stand at opposite poles to each other: the one as being the worst of all human vices and the other as being the best of all human virtues. This, then, is a further reason why we must take care not to fall into the all-too-easy habit of hating enemies. For they are still members of this great human family of ours, still creatures planted like us on this woeful planet both to learn its immediate lessons and to share its ultimate redemption."

S (faint): Yeah.

S: Randy, it's-- so is it-- what does repent mean?

RC: I've actually got some quotes together on repentance and we could run through them.

LR (faint): He's got a very-- a-- a descript-- incredible detailed descriptions of what repentance actually (is/means).

AD (very faint): The original [one word inaudible] was change of heart.

LR: What did you say, Anthony?

AD (very faint): The original meaning of repentance was a change of heart. [short pause] [few words inaudible]

S (faint): Our root is that we think.

S (very faint, possibly part of background): [couple words inaudible]

S (very faint): Uh-hm.

[12¼ second pause]

AD (faint): A glimpse of-- of the quotation from Confucius shows that he was a Sage, not just an ethical man. When he was asked how would you return the good, he says with the good, and how about evil, he (said/says) well certainly not with the good but with justice. (PB V7, 11:4.113)

[short pause]

S (faint): Read.

[24¼ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.88, RC reading]: "At its peak moments, which can arise only in its first or last stages and which belong only to its affectional rather than passional side, human love catches and reflects feebly the nature of divine love."

[23½ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.155, RC reading]: "How can we renounce the attachments to everything and everyone and yet enjoy life, fulfill obligations, or remain in the world? How [RC adds: to] do this without [RC adds: a] flight to a monastery? How [RC adds: to] remain an affectionate husband, [a] devoted father? In the case of things, the answer has been given earlier. In the case of persons, the answer ought now to be given. We renounce the"materiality" of the loved one and with it the clinging to her material image, her physical possession, her personal ego. We hold on to the concept of her "spirituality," her essence, her real being. We then know that this true self of hers cannot be separated from our own; the illusory relationship is replaced [RC reads: placed] by a real one, the perishable pseudo-love by an undying essential one."

[14¼ second pause]

PC: Can you do that once more please?

[short pause]

RC: Uh-- yeah, it's 149, page 149, the top of the page.

PB [V5, 6:2.155, RC rereads a part of]: "How can we renounce the…"

AD (simultaneously): Read the one before Randy. They're-they're couple.

RC: Pardon?

AD: The one before it wasn't bad too.

RC: Ok.

PB [V5, 6:2.154, RC reading]: "The act of renunciation is always first, and only sometimes last, an inward one. It is done by thoroughly understanding that the object renounced is, after all, only like a picture in a dream and that, again like a dream, it is ephemeral. Its illusoriness and transitoriness must be not only mentally [RC reads: must not only be] perceived but also emotionally taken to heart. If we give up our wrong belief about it, we may not have to give up the object itself. Now this admonition cannot be made to stop with visible things only. To be honestly applied, it must be applied to visible persons also. No matter how fondly we love somebody, we must not flinch from seeing the metaphysical truth about him nor from accepting the consequences of such perception."

PB [V5, 6:2.155, RC rereads]: "How can we renounce the attachments to everything and everyone and yet enjoy life, fulfill obligations, [or] remain in the world? How do this without [RC adds: a] flight to a monastery? How remain an affectionate husband, a devoted father? In the case of things, the answer has been given earlier. In the case of persons, the answer ought now to be given. We renounce the"materiality" of the loved one [RC: Materiality in quotes.] and with it the clinging to her material image, her physical possession, her personal ego. We hold on to the concept of her "spirituality," her essence, her real being. We then know that this true self of hers cannot be separated from our own; the illusory relationship is replaced by a real one, the perishable pseudo-love by an undying essential one."

[45 second pause]

PD: That's like the saying from the Brihadaranyaka, right? [student assents, faint] Not-- not for the sake of the wife is the wife dear but for the sake of the Self is the wife dear. On and on Herb.

S (very faint): Yeah right.

DB: So um, Randy, is-- is he saying there that this is one way of establishing this undying love of-- of one's own Overself through this relationship or is the undying love specifically for the spiritual essence of a particular wife or what have you? I'm-- there's a certain transition point there and I'm not sure how generally one should understand that.

[short pause]

PD: Well he seems to strip the corporeality and the sensible qualities.

DB: Right, yes. That's-- that part I follow.

S: Right.

DR (simultaneously): But he also seems to be saying how can you do this without running to a monastery and still live in the world. He seems to be speaking about living with essences.

PD: Living (without/with that) what?

S (very faint): Yeah.

DB: No I thought it was the--

DR: Essence.

S (very faint): Yeah.

DB: I thought the [S simultaneously: Right.] point was that it was--

PD: Point was you didn't have to run to the world-- to a monastery.

DB (simultaneously): Monastery.

S (very faint): That's right.

DR: Right.

PD: That it would be-- [S simultaneously, faint: That was also (possibly one word inaudible)] it's done in this manner.

DR: Right.

BS: If you're real careful you could still have the anima.

DB: No. (laughter, student words) No that's-- that's-- (laughter) Bert, no.

S: He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

BS: Well, I'm just paraphrasing [couple words inaudible]

AD (simultaneously): You don't have to take Aristotle's version, you know, about marriage. He says well-- oh no, was it Socrates? He said [S simultaneously: Socrates.] if you marry someone like Xanthippe you'll end up as a philosopher. (laughter)

BS: Well [one word inaudible] everything to know.

AD (faint): But I think that refers [couple words inaudible] (you just) love a person, you could do both.

AH: Is it-- is it so that the quote suggests that love is love but it presents itself under illusory guises in terms of its attachment?

RC (simultaneously): I think the quote suggests there's a pseudo-love here to be replaced by an essential one.

AH: Yeah.

DB: But, the part I don't understand is this essential love, ok. I mean he starts out speaking about the spiritual essence of the individual, to get rid of the corporeal part and so forth and you're left with this undying sense of love. Now is this then to be considered in a-- in a universal sense, is this a way of arriving at that state generally, I-- or through-- he speaks of it as being undying, we're still talking about a specific individual essence. Do-- do you see my problem?

S: Yeah, yes.

DB (simultaneously): You know, the [RC simultaneously: I think so, um--] many Overselves and--

RC: I can bring in other quotes later to support it with but just for now I think-- I'd say they-- he would say, talking about a specific person. That if you want to make love the dominant theme of your relationship with this specific soul it's (part of that).

DB: Uh-hm.

RC: But he's also going to be saying that when I say love, it's-- it may well be something quite different than what you ordinarily take to be love.

AH: It's hard to-- it's hard to see where any particularity of a specific object is retained in-- in-- in regards to a universal love, [students assent, faint] or it is such a (love/law).

RC (simultaneously): I (don't think) in terms of being in relationships built up just specifically between disciples and masters through incarnations, many incarnations, the bond of love that grows between them, [student assents, faint] um--

BS: Yeah, the fourth quadrant [diagram], you know. (some laughter)

S: What?

S (very faint): Geez Bert.

BS/S(?): [few words inaudible]

BS: I don't think so.

VM: Twelfth house [diagram].

S: What?

PD: What are we talking about? (laughter)

S: Six people.

BS: I can talk for a while. (laughter) But actually I thought you--

PD: You landed in the wrong class. (laughter)

BS: Just trying to apply theory. (more laughter)

PB [unpublished, RC reading]: "Many people confuse their love of someone with the desire to possess him or her. The two are separate, and the higher the love, the less possessive it becomes."

[student assents, very faint]

[17¼ second pause]

(Side 1 of original cassette tape digitized as 1983 0112b Ends; Side 2 Begins)

[laughter, background student talking, 14 seconds]

AD: [couple words inaudible] six. [short pause with faint background student talking] Didn't you read the story about the forest, the Brindavan and the love that the gopi Kr-- gopi maidens had for Krishna? Basically the same people.

[11½ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.85, RC reading]: "Although we have stated in The Wisdom of the Overself that a love restricted to the limited circle of wife, family, or friends is unphilosophic and should be extended in universal compassion to all mankind, this should not be mistaken to mean that such a restricted love ought to be abandoned. On the contrary, it should have its fullest place within the larger one. We have also written in the same book that"love" is one of the most misused words in English. We may now add that it is also one of the most debased words. Why? Because, very often, it is based on sheer self-interest and not on the beloved's interest and [RC adds: it] gives only so long as it gets; because, not seldom, the greater the ardour with which it begins, the greater the antipathy with which it ends; and because it frequently mistakes the goading of animal glands for the awakening of human affection. (bit of laughter) True love does not change or falter because the beloved has changed and faltered or because the physical circumstances wherein it was born have become different. It cannot be blown hither and thither by the accidents of destiny. It is not merely an emotional attraction, although it will include this. "Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds, . . . O no! it is an ever-fixed mark. . . ." wrote Shakespeare."

[short pause]

JfL: Randy, it doesn't seem, going back to David's original question, that you could really have an undying impersonal love and still have it for just a person, I--

RC: Well that person's a soul too, he's right here.

JfL: I don't-- I-- I don't understand what that contact is that you were talking about teacher and the two individuals there, they return time and time again with that love, what--

LR/S(?): What's the question Jeff, repeat the question.

JfL: I am still not clear on-- I'm still not clear on this distinction of the impersonal love that you have for an individual or what kind of love that can be, why-- why that is limited to the individual or how that could even be the answer.

LH: Well, we don't-- I don't anyway have any trouble thinking of my own higher self or essence in very particular individual terms. So why should it be hard to conceive of someone else's in those same particular individual term(s).

[short pause]

AH: That-- the notion of particularity, I think, I think part of the-- part of the mystery is the notion of possessiveness that was described, you know. Like, it's perhaps appropriate to have a particular object. But it's inappropriate to have possessiveness toward that object. I don't know if that is a real distinction or not. If it's possessiveness, it would seem that there would be an attachment to the materiality which is really the opposite of a-- of an appreciation of the essence. But whether it's a person or-- or an idea or a thing or whatever, [short pause] there's a possessive quality about human love that deprives it of its essence, that restricts it to corporeality, [student assents, very faint] physicality.

LR: Jeff are you asking why call it impersonal [JfL simultaneously: No I'm say--] if it's about a person? Is that what you asked?

S (faint): Uh-hm.

S (very faint): Right.

JfL: Well it seems as soon as it becomes impersonal, it's more universal than its--

LR (faint): Not about a person.

S (faint): Right.

JfL: Yeah it somehow transcends that somehow but I--

DB: I think the quote was that it was-- the emphasis was on its impersonality so much as that it was directed not towards the person of, you know, discussion but to the essence of that person. And to the extent that it was directed towards that essence, [S, faint: Yeah.] alright, it was to that extent impersonal.

JfL: Oh, I thought it was to that extent that it was personal.

DB: I wouldn't see it that way. I mean there's the distinction bet-- between individual-- I mean I think that I was trying to understand the distinction between individual and personal-- personal-- personal characteristics, you know, their ego, body and so on and so forth, but the essence is something entirely other.

AH: But also-- but at the same time individual you're suggesting.

DB: Yes, [S, faint: Yeah.] right. And so I was-- well--

S (faint): (Get out the book.)

S (faint): Uh-hm.

DB: Yeah, the reason I was-- I had-- had asked the question is that it's always been a mystery to me how someone can have this very powerful, you know, love of the Divine, you know, I mean it just doesn't happen very gradually. But I was wondering-- I mean very-- very often. So I was wondering if that was what he was talking about here and it was through this kind of interaction, this, you know, you meet someone, fall in love, get rid of the other stuff and you're left with this, if this was what he was talking about here. And wh--

RC (simultaneously): I don't think this particular quote is stressing that.

DB: Right, yeah, and so Randy was saying no, this is still relating to the essence of the individual.

JfL (simultaneously): Of the individual.

DB: Right.

BS: What-- very discrete now.

DB: I beg your pardon?

BS: Discrete, essences as discrete pertaining to an individual.

DB: Well-- yeah.

BS: You know qualities that seem--

DB: I would s-- well [one/two words inaudible]

BS (simultaneously): I'm confused, that's why--

S (simultaneously, faint): Oh yeah. [couple words inaudible]

JfL (simultaneously): (Well/Or) would the essence of what you're getting to be of the other person. Seems if you don't see that beauty in yourself, and if you don't have that, that-- it seems like it's got aspiration. And I thought that was what your point was, that aspiration that is the love. Hence--

DB (faint): [couple words inaudible] talk to you about this [few words inaudible] Um, go ahead, why don't you tell me something.

RC: Maybe I'll just read some more of them [S simultaneously, faint: Yeah, do that.] [student assents, faint] and see what he says about it.

[short pause with faint background student talking]

S: Uh-hm.

RC/S(?): 70.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

PB [V5, 6:2.102, RC reading]: "How can [RC reads: could] I love my enemy, it is asked, or anyone who is outwardly or inwardly repugnant to me? The answer is that we are not called on [RC reads: upon] to love what is evil in our enemy nor what is ugly in anyone. We are called on [RC reads: upon], however, to remember that alongside of the evil there is the divine soul in him, alongside of the ugliness there is the divine beauty in him. His non-awareness of it does not alter the fact of its existence. And because he is a [RC reads: the] bearer of something [RC adds: greater and] grander than himself, unconscious of it though he be, we are to meet his hostility with our goodwill, his baseness with our nobility, and thus help him by our thought or our example to move onward--even if no more than one millimeter--towards the discovery and realization of his own divine soul. When we are enjoined to love others we are really enjoined to sympathize with them as fellow living creatures and to have compassion for their sufferings or ignorance. If the thought of our enemy arouses hatred, dislike, or fear, he will continue to haunt. The only way to be free of him is to arouse our compassion for him, to extend goodwill towards him. In the moment that we feel like this we exorcise his wrath and are liberated."

[short pause]

S (very faint): What page is that?

S (very faint): What page?

RC: 184, number 7.

[12¼ second pause]

PB [V5, 6:2.103, RC reading]: ""Love thy neighbour as thyself"…"

RC: I think this is the one, don't you?

S: Yeah.

PB [V5, 6:2.103, RC reading]: ""Love thy neighbour as thyself," the dictum preached by Jesus and practised by the sages, seems to offer a remote and unapproachable ideal. But it will not seem so if we come to understand what Jesus meant and how the sage is able to realize it. Every man does indeed love himself, but he does not love the whole of himself. There are defects and weaknesses in himself which he hates. He cannot therefore be expected to love them in his neighbour. But he can be expected, if he perceives that these faults eventually bring painful karmic results, to feel compassion for those who suffer from them. In the case of the sage, not only is such a consideration operative but also the perception of his neighbour's existence within the one universal Mind in which he feels himself to be rooted. It is [RC adds: therefore] easy and natural for him, [therefore], to practise loving kindness towards his neighbour. Here, at this final stage of knowledge which is sagehood, the "I" in a man becomes inseparable from the "you." Both exist simultaneously within him, whereas in the ordinary man they stand fundamentally opposed to each other. No longer is the personality the sole content of the mind: it is now but a partial content. In his inmost attitude he is conscious of unity with others and consequently emanates a perfect sympathy towards them. This is not the sentimental attitude which often goes with the superficial emotion called love. It is profoundly deeper. It can never change, whereas emotional love may turn to dislike or even hate. This inner sense of unity can in no wise alter. It is always there. Nor can it [even] be impeded by physical or selfish considerations. There is nothing in another man's face or body, fortune or misfortune, mind or heart, which can obstruct the ceaseless flow of the blesser. "We two are rooted in the same Overself" is the remembrance which he cherishes in [RC reads: within] himself. He has understood the inner-penetration [RC reads: the inner interpenetration] of the many in the One and of the One with the many. What he feels for himself is not different from what he feels for others; but what he does for himself will be necessarily [RC reads: necessarily be] different, because wisdom demands recognition of the superior and hence more responsible role which has been allotted to him in his [RC reads: this] game of life."

[short pause]

S: Where is that from?

RC: 185, number 71.

[16¾ second pause]

[bell rung]

[14½ second pause]

PC: Will we be on this topic again next week?

[Audio File 1983 0112b Ends]