Monday, September 28th, 1981

SEMINAR at Wisdom's Goldenrod, Hector, NY

with Anthony Damiani (AD)

September 28, 1981

ASTROLOGY; THEORY

TOPIC: Astrology

SUBJECT: Theory

SUBSUBJECTS: Ecliptic, Celestial Equator, Circle of Same and Circle of Difference, Tropical Zodiac, Sidereal Zodiac, Precession of the Equinoxes, Motions of the Spheres, Prime Mover, Inerratic Sphere, Directions of Space

CONTENTS:

Intellect as space; finding its image in the twelfth house

The directions of space (Ibn 'Arabi) vs. the starry bodies themselves

The ecliptic (circle of difference) and celestial equator (circle of same)

Sidereal zodiac (visible constellations) vs. tropical zodiac (invisible signs); the four cardinal points

Cycles on Earth defined from the signs, not the constellations

Circle of Same and Circle of Difference (the Timaeus); the Prime Mover

Precession of the equinoxes; the Earth's wobble; the Platonic year (25,920 years); Aristotle's ignorance of it

Motions of the spheres: signs (1 motion), inerratic sphere (2), stars (3), planets (7)

Elements–Earth; geocentric vs. heliocentric views; Fludd's World Cell

Manly P. Hall, The Philosophy of Astrology: the Ptolemaic geocentric world; the three zodiacs; constellations as gods; stars as centers of radiant light; the 36 constellational groups (Suras/Asuras)

Discussion: the fixed stars and the intelligence behind them; Shiva's Head and the Pole Star; the dianoetic/doxastic circles

Joscelyn Godwin, Robert Fludd: Mens, spirit of God, the void of matter; man extending to the inerratic sphere; directionalized space

Hindu vs. Western astrology: sidereal/fate vs. tropical/reason

Alan Leo, Casting the Horoscope: the two zodiacs; macrocosmic vs. human evolution

Titus Burckhardt, Mystical Astrology According to Ibn 'Arabi: the spheres from divine Throne to fixed stars; the directions of space as qualities of Being

Titus Burckhardt, Alchemy: the Hermetic Christian diagram; the starless Empyrean as prime mover; the descending order of spheres

Conclusion: two to three realms above the fixed stars; perhaps the confusion is of Sun in Aquarius with Jupiter in Pisces

BOOKS READ FROM OR REFERENCED:

• Titus Burckhardt, Mystical Astrology According to Ibn 'Arabi

• Plato, Timaeus

• Manly P. Hall, The Philosophy of Astrology

• Joscelyn Godwin, Robert Fludd: Hermetic Philosopher and Surveyor of Two Worlds

• Alan Leo, Casting the Horoscope

• Titus Burckhardt, Alchemy: Science of the Cosmos, Science of the Soul

DIAGRAMS embedded in this transcript:

• FIGURE 1981 0928-1. The Ecliptic and the Celestial Equator.

• FIGURE 1981 0928-2. The Motions of the Planets and the Stars.

• FIGURE 1981 0928-3. The Earth and the Other Elements.

RETYPED AND REFORMATTED by IT 2026

NOTES:

• RETYPED PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT (hence V10). From 1981 0928S1-10R14.PDF. THERE ARE NO AUDIO CASSETTE TAPES EXTANT.

• This event is among those in later 1981/early 1982 when Anthony was exploring Astrology/the Zodiacs, Cosmology, Physics, Astronomy, Soul, Nature, and The Grid: Gnostic and Fabricative.

• All spelling, capitalization, and punctuation corrected, all astrological glyphs spelled out.

1981 09/28 SEMINAR at Wisdom's Goldenrod

Astrology; Theory

[File 1981 0928S1-10R14.PDF Begins]

SEMINAR, MONDAY, SEPT. 28, 1981

ON THE GEOMETRY OF THE ZODIAC AND THE FIXED STARS, REFERENCES ABOUT THE SPHERES ABOVE THE FIXED STARS

PRESENTATION BY JEFFREY COX

To understand intellect as space, we must find the image of it in the 12th House. The Directions of Space, which are discussed in the Mystical Astrology of Ibn 'Arabi, don't seem to be equivalent to the starry bodies themselves. Therefore we must try to determine the difference between the starry bodies and the spaces they are in.

— • • • —

PART I. GEOMETRY

The planets move in this direction → in the ecliptic.

The N-S axis and the line of the Earth's equator is transposed out into space to form the celestial equator.

The plane of the zodiac is 23°+ to that of the celestial equator. It is the plane the planets move in.

* The ecliptic -- Both the constellations and the zodiac are along the plane of the ecliptic.

* Celestial equator -- The diurnal motion of the celestial equator or the "circle of same", carries along the ecliptic. Because of the rotation of the Earth on its axis (in 24 hours), the celestial equator revolves in 24 hours, and carries along the heavens.

The celestial equator has no stars on it. It also has no motion if you say the Earth has motion, but it does have motion (with respect to the Earth) if the Earth is considered fixed.

* Sidereal Zodiac -- The sidereal zodiac, used by the Hindus, is the constellations of stars, which are visible.

* Tropical Zodiac -- The tropical zodiac, the one used in the West, is the 12 signs, which are invisible. The 4 cardinal points are absolutely determined by the relation of the Sun to the celestial equator. (Libra and Aries, where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator, and Cancer & Capricorn, the highest and lowest points). The zodiac travels around the circle of difference in 1 year.

All cycles on Earth, such as the seasons, are defined from the relations to the signs, not the constellations. (Spring always starts when the Sun hits 1° Aries, which is where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator, no matter what constellation 1° Aries is in.)

The tropical zodiac is a spatial property with respect to the Earth; the fixed stars are determined from that.

The stars precess through the fixed zodiac.

* Circle of Same and Circle of Difference -- The Timaeus speaks of the circle of sameness and the circle of difference.

Both are turning around because the heavens are turning as a unit (because of the Earth's rotation).

In the circle of difference, the plane of the Sun's equator, the [Earth] and all the planets turn in this direction →, from W to E.

The circle of same, the direction of the Earth's rotation, travels in this direction ←.

The unembodied, invisible zodiac of signs has a constant motion, moving around the heavens over a period of 24 hours. Hence it is called the Prime Mover because of its constant motion.

The motion of bodies is in the opposite direction to the Prime Mover.

Both the 12-fold of signs and the 12-fold of constellations are defined along the ecliptic, the circle of difference. This shows astronomically there is a difference between them.

* Precession of the equinoxes --

The 4 cardinal points are fixed, but the actual point where the Sun crosses the ecliptic is slowly shifting back. The circle of same is moving back along the zodiac. Wherever it crosses the ecliptic is called 1° Aries, but it has moved in the constellations (so that now it's approximately between Pisces & Aquarius).

The precession of the equinoxes takes place because the axis of the Earth wobbles in a circle (with respect to the celestial equator, if the Earth is considered fixed).

The Earth's wobble to shift all the way around takes about 25,920 years, which is called a Platonic year. It moves about 50¼° per year, [Note: The standard figure is 50¼ arcseconds per year.] or 1° in 72 years. (There is some reason to believe this rate is not constant.)

Aristotle didn't know about the precession of the equinoxes. Modern astronomy has also discovered the "fixed stars" have their own motion with respect to each other, but that isn't discussed here.

Another way of looking at precession is that the fixed star clusters are participating in different signs. They move forward through the signs, like the planets. (We normally look at precession as the signs moving backwards.)

* Motions of the spheres --

The signs or tropical zodiac have only one motion, the diurnal motion (in 24 hours) around the heavens, E → W. Perhaps that is why they are called the Prime Mover.

The inerratic sphere (constellations) have 2 motions, the diurnal motion and the precession (with respect to the signs).

The stars in the inerratic have 3 motions. In addition to the above two motions, they also rotate on their own axes. (There is also the stars' own motion, noticed in modern astronomy. The stars shift enough to be in different Sabian symbols in different decades).

The planets have 7 motions. They rotate on their own axis, shift up and down with respect to the ecliptic, [shift] forwards and back with respect to the ecliptic, [shift] towards and away from with respect to the ecliptic.

The retrograde motion of the planets, the introverting of the planet's energy, is in the direction of the circle of same (though the planet is still moving in the ecliptic, the circle of difference).

* Elements-Earth --

This earth could also be thought of as the earth element or plane.

We are living on the earth plane, the Earth is fixed, according to the geocentric view. The heliocentric view would say the stars are fixed and the Earth is moving.

* Lisa's diagram of Fludd's World Cell was used as a visual aid. Around the empyrean realm of flames and angels is matter getting "organized", "tentative illumination". Outside is chaos.

PART II. REFERENCES AND DISCUSSION, zodiac and fixed stars

* Philosophy of Astrology, Manly Palmer Hall

Hall uses the same basic diagram as Fludd, of the Ptolemaic conception of geocentric astronomy.

P. 14 -- The Ptolemaic conception of geocentric astronomy represents the qualitative world. The earth that is in the middle of the geocentric diagram is the element earth. The 7 planes of magnetic energy are the anima mundi. 3 circles of the stars are represented by 3 rings of flames. These great constellational groupings are the source of the pure spiritual energy of nature.

World — {spirit from stars; soul from planets; body from elements}

-- (Each star has its planets which reflect and distribute the pure spiritual energy of the stars.)

P. 18 -- The 3 zodiacs according to Ptolemy:

1. Primum Mobile or first motion is the first power of the God-head. It is the source of all energies that manifest in creation (corresponds to stars).

2. Crystal Sea (corresponds to planets).

3. Firmament (corresponds to elements). Dividing line between world of spirit and that of soul.

P. 26 -- The constellations are gods -- each constellation is the body of a vast spirit.

P. 27 -- Each star is a great center of radiant light; each emits a different quality of vibratory light.

P. 30 -- The Ancients recognized 36 constellational groups. The 12 which fall on the ecliptic are called the zodiac. 12 others exist in the northern hemisphere and 12 in the southern. The star spirits of the north were called the Suras or Genii of Light. The 12 of the southern were made up of Asuras or spirits of darkness.

North--spiritual

Ecliptic--formal

South--material.

DISCUSSION AND QUESTIONS

Do the stars in the constellations point to the intelligence behind them? The quality of the fixed stars is fairly delineated from the sign they're in.

It was remarked in seminar that in Hindu mythology Prana circulates about Shiva's Head, which points to the Pole Star (N). The South Pole points to darkness. Thence is the dichotomy of Light (North) and darkness (South).

In the Timaeus the circle of same was considered to be the dianoetic circle; the circle of difference was the doxastic circle.

— • • • —

* Robert Fludd, Joscelyn Godwin

1--Mens

9 angelic worlds

stars

planets

2--spirit of God

3 rings of angels

stars

planets

3--In the void of matter the intelligence of angels (rational soul of man) manifests, perceptible to intellect. It is the vivifying virtue of the heavens, the life force of the lower realms. Then the elements separate out, the Ether becomes the stars and planets.

DISCUSSION

In the Robert Fludd diagram on the cover, man extends to the inerratic sphere.

In the divided line on this diagram, the stars represent reasoning attended with imagination.

We can think of directionalized space as Jupiter. Only certain stars are connected with us, not the entire globe of stars. Universal manifestation could be within the Prime Mover, within space. This is above the level of Venus, so perhaps the Prime Mover is directionalized space.

* Hindu vs. Western astrology

In the East, where there is more karma-oriented astrology, the sidereal zodiac is used. This zodiac of constellations is fixed. The Hindus use mostly the belt of animals, the fixed stars carried in the belt of the ecliptic.

The Hindus take exclusively the view of the Cosmic Circuit, the position of the planets against the background of the constellations of the zodiac. The intersection of the Sun's path and the stars is used to get the signs.

In the West, the tropical zodiac, which is imaginary space, which is free of connection with body, is used. In the West reason is more important than fated events. In the West Aries is a fixed point in space, which is related to the fixed equator. For the West the ascendant is fixed, and the stars are of minor importance. The intersection of the Earth's path with the Sun's is used to get the signs.

The Hindus using the sidereal zodiac emphasize the contribution of fate; the Western using the tropical emphasize the rational.

* Casting the Horoscope, Alan Leo

P. 153 -- The Zodiac of the Signs has a sympathetic relation to the Zodiac of Constellations and is evenly divided into 12 uniform spaces or signs. The Zodiac of Constellations would seem to be concerned with macrocosmic evolution as distinguished from microcosmic or human evolution which is demonstrably related to the zodiac of the signs.

— • • • —

* Mystical Astrology According to Ibn 'Arabi, Burckhardt.

P. 12 -- (1) Sphere of the Divine Throne

(2) Sphere of the Divine Pedestal--first polarization or distinctive determination with respect to formal manifestation.

(3) Sky without Stars or Sky of Zodiacal Towers (Signs)--not spatial, void, informal.

Sensible, subject to corruption:

{(4) Sky of Fixed Stars or of Stations

Saturn and below}

P. 15 -- (3) These 12 signs are not identical with the 12 zodiacal constellations contained in (4), but represent virtual determinations of the celestial space and are not differentiated except by their relation to planetary stations or mansions projected on the sky of fixed stars.

P. 16 -- The sphere of the supreme sky is the primum mobile. The revolution of this most vast sky being itself the fundamental measure of time according to which all other movement is measured, cannot be susceptible to temporal measure.

P. 17 -- We know that the definition of the regions or parts of the great sphere of sky without stars is by means of reference points that the fixed stars offer. The limit sphere of the sky is not measurable except by reason of the directions of the space, when one speaks of parts of the sky one does no other than define the directions. These are the expressions of the qualitative nature of space. The extreme expansion of these directions is the sky without stars.

P. 24 -- The zodiac of the Sun signs is the Towers.

P. 26 -- The Heaven of stations is called such because the movements of the planets project themselves on it. The planets, intermediate between the world of archetypes and Earth, actualize the spatial relations virtually contained in the indefinite sphere of the sky-limit, the sphere being no other than the totality of the directions of the space and hence the image of the universe.

P. 31 -- The directions of space correspond to so many qualities of Being.

P. 44 -- The directions of space are particularly adequate symbols for the nature of the Divine Qualities. Like those qualities, which are the first determinations of Being. Each direction is perfectly determined. When one gives an image to the Divine Qualities, the center of its radiation must be identified with the unconditional Principle. As for the directions of celestial space, their center is the human being.

— • • • —

* Alchemy, Burckhardt

This has a similar scheme to that of Ibn 'Arabi. In this book there is an anonymous Hermetic Christian diagram of the spheres.

P. 46 ff. -- The starless Empyrean surrounds the starry heavens and imparts to the inerratic sphere its movement. It is called the prime mover and also the all-embracing Divine Intellect. The revolution of the 8th heaven, the firmament of the fixed stars, is the basic measure of time. Therefore the outermost starless heaven which imparts to the 8th its precession backwards, is the borderline between time and eternity. The Empyrean is free of multiplicity and mutually exclusive of forms and conditions.

From the Hermetic diagram, in descending order:

Christ--above the spheres--the creator of all things, God, the first cause, the Divine Will.

forma in potential--pure act; matter in potential--passive receptacle — [both] in Pure Being

Universal spirit--first effect, first created being, principle of all creatures

10 angelic spheres and 10 intelligences

4 spheres of soul: celestial, rational, animal, vegetable

Nature as principle of bodies

10th sphere--the highest sphere, in which takes place the movement from W to E and is principle of all movement

9th sphere--which moves the 8th and causes it to travel from N → S → N

8th sphere--fixed stars.

Saturn and below, etc.

— • • • —

All of the above references agree on having 2 or 3 realms above the fixed stars, but they disagree on what they represent. Some of them say beyond the realm of the fixed stars is pure Being or Intellect; others, further material realms.

Perhaps the confusion is of the Sun in Aquarius with the Jupiter in Pisces.

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