Thursday, October 15th, 1981

Interviews with Mrs. Ybor

at Wisdom's Goldenrod, Hector, NY

October 15, 1981 (also includes 2 undated sessions)

TOPIC: Mrs. Ybor Interview

SUBJECT: Mystical Experience

SUBSUBJECTS: Void, Intellectual-Principle, One, Mind, Attachment/Detachment

CONTENTS:

Session 1 (date unknown)

Vision of dark, empty portal; experience of being "pressed open" by infinite power; "I'm going to learn to know thee"

Feeling of head "opening up" with cleavage; everything disappeared except the portal/One; experience of "sheer emptiness" (not void)

AD's explanation of 18 different kinds of emptiness; portal identified as Maha Voidness (Great Voidness)

Iterative void experiences progressively alter phenomenological perception, rendering appearances as void and facilitating detachment

Void as one of the great Ideas in the Intellectual-Principle; principle of non-manifestation

Her love for Norway as pathway to divinity

Attachment to Norway will be taken away; understanding everything as void, then receiving it back transformed; attachment vs. love

Pure Thought experience

AD's explanation of the "adytum" as entrance into the One

AD explains she is in the realm of Non-Being or Beyond Being; explosion opened up the path

AD's experience of the Void Mind when waiting for PB

Rejection of permanent union with God; concept of "companionship with God" or "permanent friendship"; critique of Hindu terminology around identity/union

Power, Love, Existence all different aspects of the One; all metaphysical Ideas in the Mind/Self

Her love for Norway reinterpreted as loving gratitude to her origins; like the love a man has for a hero

Session 2 (date unknown)

Healing experience: severe illness and nausea; transformation into solid light lasting two hours; complete healing and doctor's confirmation

Awakened at 2 AM with prophetic words: "You are going to be seated on the throne of God"

Meditation beginning with "I am nothing but air"; gradual vanishing into darkness; black channels descending and remaining within; complete unconsciousness in primordial darkness

Entry into stillness followed by supernatural bliss; ascension and request to see God; mysterious experience during descent

Expansion and becoming "infinitude of nothing"; void filled with white light, then becoming clear void; "God is pure Mind and I have become pure Mind"

Session 3: October 15th

Dream of pregnancy, abortion, then giving birth to beautiful son

Vision upon waking of triangular segment with numbers 1, 2, 3; unreadable letters (possibly runes) in grayish-white

Attempt to complete remaining 18 voids through self-annihilation; exhausting process of negating all concepts, selfhood, consciousness; achievement of absolute voidness and nothingness

Light entering from left, illuminating head and universe; identification of Atma; ascension to encounter with the One (Brahman); Atman and Brahman are one

Joy and bliss extending to fill entire universe; recognition that whole world experiences same divine happiness; experience of being God

The message: need for ego/personality renunciation to make room for divine power

Universal ignorance of our divine nature

AD's interpretation: experience of three Hypostases and their integrity as one; dream numbers 1, 2, 3 as prefiguring the experience

Recognition of divine collaboration in spiritual development; encouragement that deity helps sincere seekers

BOOKS READ FROM OR REFERENCED:

• Bible, Genesis

DIAGRAMS referred to are not with this transcript version. [Transcriber note: [diagram] means the speaker is referencing a diagram as he or she is speaking.]

NOTES:

• AD comments in the 1/30/82 Alchemy class after playing a tape of Mrs. Ybor talking about some of her mystical experiences: "These tapes I'm preserving, I'm going to edit them, I'm going to edit everything– all my comments I'm going to edit out. But I want to preserve the tapes for the library. It's an actual living experience and they deserve to be taped. I will edit out all my comments because very often, like I said, I had to say things, they were like medicinal lies not to discourage her, to make her feel she was getting closer and closer, you know. So I had to do that but now she understands these things so–" It appears that this editing never took place.

• Biographical sketch: Mrs. Ybor was born to a successful shipping magnate in Oslo, Norway, in the very late nineteenth century or the early twentieth century. As a young person, she skied in the mountains of Norway—no trails in those days—so imagine how beautiful it was! She said that it was while skiing alone in the mountains that she had her first mystical experiences—great exalted states. She married Edward R. Martinez Ybor, an heir to the founder of Ybor City near Tampa, Florida, and at the outbreak of the Second World War, they relocated to Ithaca, NY, because Cornell University had the largest collection of ancient Norse literature in North America, which she had a deep interest in. When Mrs. Ybor lost her beloved husband, she experienced such deep grief that she was inwardly catapulted into profound mystical states. Anna Prim introduced her to Anthony Damiani, so he could help her understand these experiences. She later sold her home in Ithaca, and at Anthony's request, Andrew Holmes designed, and many in the Wisdom's Goldenrod community helped build, a house for her on the grounds of Wisdom's Goldenrod. Once she moved in, she was able to have significantly more personal time with Anthony; they often met daily. Her mystical experiences continued through the years, almost until the time of her death. Anthony thought it was important that there be a record of her experiences to share with his students, so he taped some interviews with her in which he tried to help her understand more philosophically what she was experiencing.

• The first two sessions preceded the third, but their exact dates are unknown—they likely occurred earlier in the month.

• AD was not present for the second session.

TRANSCRIBED Verbatim by LCB, IT 2025. Archival verbatim transcript – V11a.

AUDIO FILES: 1981 1015a. [Note: "Tape" and "Side" refer to original audio cassette tapes that were later digitized into .MP3 Audio Files.]

1981 10/15 (also includes 2 undated sessions) INTERVIEWS at Wisdom's Goldenrod

Mrs. Ybor Interview; Mystical Experience

[Audio File 1981 1015a Begins]

Session 1 (date unknown)

Mrs. Ybor: --just a-- a dark portal. It was empty. And my mind would be cleaned out. It went into my head! Just pressing here. It's all into the head. It didn't last long but, your Master-- Oh! It's white. It's empty! A huge portal that is a power but, oh, it made me part of the Infinite. I-- I was being pressed open and my brain was-- was (being) tormented clean out as it wanted to enter.

AD: Because it wanted to enter? Is that what you said?

Mrs. Ybor: Yes. It wanted a place. So, it was-- Yeah, and then I said to my [couple words inaudible] you want to-- "I'm going to learn to know thee." That was my first--

AD: That was your first thought? I'm going to learn to know thee? Yes, that's the right track. But you say it appeared, there appeared a huge portal.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh! But it came with a power! I have known nothing before that. I was gasping.

AD: Mrs. Ybor, the portal.

Mrs. Ybor: The portal, like that.

AD: Yeah. But then what happened after you saw the portal?

Mrs. Ybor: Well, I was so preoccupied by that terrible work in my brain.

AD: Something was going on in your brain.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.

AD: Do you remember what? Could you give me some indication?

Mrs. Ybor: No.

AD: But there was turmoil there?

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.

AD: Excitement?

Mrs. Ybor: Oh! Oh.

AD: Uh-huh.

Mrs. Ybor: Painful.

AD: It hurt?

Mrs. Ybor: Oh it got-- yeah.

S (faint): (Ok.)

Mrs. Ybor: But last-- And I said, well, the-- the one power-- the One is only power.

AD: Well that's the only way [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: So--] you could know it.

Mrs. Ybor: So I want to finish the Ideas.

AD: No, no, not this 'I.' Not this 'I,' but the 'I,' what I refer to as the summit of your soul is what birth-- is the Idea for that power to work on. But tell me more, then the pain in the (heart)?

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): But I-- You know, it was so formidable. But, I had to break out to it. But--

[short pause]

AD: Did you feel anything in your head opening up?

Mrs. Ybor: But that is exactly the terror about it.

AD: That it was-- your head was opening up?

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Oh! It-- I-- I was fir-- I just had to-- as-- as only that, all the rest vanished. I was only that. And pains in the brains, in the head.

AD: But you did feel as though the brain was opening up.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh!

AD: Clear-- a cleavage?

Mrs. Ybor: Everything! Cleavage.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: And I was-- I finished only to be that.

AD: Outside the portal.

Mrs. Ybor: No.

AD: Out here [diagram]?

Mrs. Ybor: I was nothing. [chalk on board sounds] No, no. Only that remained.

AD: Only this [chalk on board sounds] remained.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.

AD: There was no more portal.

Mrs. Ybor: That is the portal I call. That dark. It's dark inside.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: That is what-- that is the One. That is the portal. And all the rest disappeared. There was nothing else left. I haven't got my glasses any longer.

AD: That's alright, that's alright, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor: Everything was pushed away by that-- that power in the center there, that portal. I call that a portal. Over here. That there, there is all the power, all, and nothing else exists. It's all vanished. And (all it) tried to-- well, I don't know what it did to my head. But, it wanted to enter my head.

AD: Yeah, that's why--

Mrs. Ybor: All the rest disappeared. I go "Whoa!" I was exploded out. But this is darkness and empty. This is sheer emptiness. It is not the void. It's empty.

AD: It's empty inside and outside.

Mrs. Ybor: Did you-- is that known?

AD: There's 18 different kinds of emptinesses. And, you go through each one, one at a time.

Mrs. Ybor: I'm going to go through this again?

AD: No, there's 18 different kind. This is called Maha Voidness, the Great Voidness.

Mrs. Ybor: But it can't be more empty. It was dark and--

AD: It was dark and?

Mrs. Ybor: And empty.

AD: That's-- So in, out. No inside, no outside

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And I was, you see. But the thing is that [someone hitting board with chalk] I had to become the void. I had to become actually nothingness, void, before that appeared. I was-- I realized myself as void, nothingness.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: [few words inaudible]

AD: Yeah.

[short pause]

Mrs. Ybor: But can I-- is it-- is this correct what I--

AD: Yes, yes. That's-- that's why a few days ago, the contact was made with your head, your brain, you remember?

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah, yeah.

AD: Alright? And now that's coming down.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, dear, it was working so hard. I think that's why I broke out.

AD: Yes, yes. It's overwhelming, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: (It's of) the word. Oh, I can't ex-- Oh! The whole universe were-- or all the powers were annihilating me to give room for that one. It was-- Yes, I felt that all the-- that I must be wiped away. All wiped away. Only that one appeared.

AD: Yeah, so that that remains, yeah. Yeah you see, you've-- the past week, the preparation has been going on for the descent of the One.

Mrs. Ybor: But how is it I had to ask for understanding? That was my first expressi-- reaction. Now I'm going to learn to know thee. I thought that I would be given intuition that I already know.

AD: No, you were given--

Mrs. Ybor: I know the Nothing.

AD: You-- you were given the actual experience of knowing the Nothing.

Mrs. Ybor: Then I'm going to feel it?

AD: After a while Mrs. Ybor, yes, after a while you'll feel it. And ultimately what that does is that you begin to feel that everything in the world, that the world itself is void.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh well yes, and I-- I stress that importantly--I had to become the void first.

AD (simultaneously): Yes. You first have to become the void.

Mrs. Ybor: It wasn't enough to silence, no, or the stillness, no.

AD: No because that's what happened, you became the void. But once you experience the void a few times, Mrs. Ybor, then the world itself loses all kinds-- In other words, any reality that the world has, you start losing it. Thoughts become void. Objects become void. The appearance of the world becomes void. And then the detachment starts becoming very pronounced.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah but, I'm wondering about the Ideas.

AD: Well--

Mrs. Ybor: Yesterday in the void, I felt it was--

AD: This is one of the greatest of all the Ideas, it's called the principle of non-manifestation.

Mrs. Ybor: That's how it came, you know.

AD: But, can you see what I'm telling you, that after a while, then the whole world appears void.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah but then where is the Ideas coming from?

AD: Well-- well, like I'm trying to point out, this experience of voidness is one of the great Ideas, and it's called the principle of non-manifestation or the principle of voidness. With this principle, with this Idea as a background, as something you experience, then everything, including the appearance of the world, is seen in that voidness.

Mrs. Ybor: Then the only thing real and existing is myself.

AD: Would be the Self, yes. That everything would ex-- everything that it-- everything that exists would exist on the background of voidness. That's one of the great Ideas.

Mrs. Ybor: But, why is that?

AD: Well that's-- that's because the [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Background.] soul has to be-- the soul has to experience the world as void, as unreal. And what is real is the voidness. [S: Ok.] Then after a while, the world begins to lose its glamour, its fascination, its interest. Then the real detachment sets in.

Mrs. Ybor: No but Ideas, Idea, I'm worried about the--

AD (simultaneously): That's the o-- that's one Idea. That's one Idea. That's one of the Ideas in the Intellectual-Principle, the principle of voidness, of which there are 18 kinds. Then you may experience another Idea. The Ideas that you're experiencing, Mrs. Ybor, aren't ideas in the head, they're not concepts. They're thoughts in the Mind of God. So this thought of voidness--

Mrs. Ybor: And where is God? Where-- is void also?

AD: Void is one of the attributes of God. One of the names of God.

Mrs. Ybor: It's awfully hard to get this.

AD: No Mrs. Ybor, you're getting it.

Mrs. Ybor: But you know, now this is as it has repeat itself. When I-- you know, this morning I've been thinking about Norway. Because Jeanne [student of Anthony] was coming to finish (it/that). I think about this extraordinary love that inspired me, such beautiful poetry, and it has guided my life I think. And-- and every time, like last week also when I relived my love for Norway, God comes. I was just in bed dreaming about this, because I was trying to write if you were to sing it about that poor, that-- Oh yes, I finished my notes. Oh, I said-- instead of saying God save the King, dear God save Norway, the cradle of humanity, the cradle of civilization. And-- [short pause] It's-- love after all is real way to the--

AD: Yes.

Mrs. Ybor: --divinity.

AD: But you see, even Norway will be taken from you. Then it'll be given back, but in a different way. You've heard-- one of the things that you would be brought into understanding is, after you understand that everything is void, then it's given back to you. And no longer does it have control over you.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. Then it becomes a pure Idea.

AD: Yeah. It no longer has control. And that's the way detachment comes.

Mrs. Ybor: But it's a nice control (of/or) that love.

AD: Oh-- oh yes, yes. The love is alright. The love is fine. It's the attachment that's not. You know, there's a fine line between, let's say, when a woman wants love and when she wants passion is a fine line.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh dear [one word inaudible] I've-- I've known that.

AD: So, it's [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Yes.] perfectly alright to love Norway. It isn't to become passionately attached to it. Because the only thing that you can be attached to should be the God within you.

Mrs. Ybor: But it's void!

AD: It's void. And you can't get attached to that either.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh. And also a new experience today. I really had become pure thought. I was actually just void. I had no consistency. Until now I've been floating around as spirit and I felt myself as spirit.

AD: Uh-hm.

Mrs. Ybor: But today I was pure thought.

AD: There was no floating around.

Mrs. Ybor: No, I was just void.

AD: Now, go back to what you asked. What did you ask?

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah, I wanted--

AD: Teach me?

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah, to teach, I will teach you to--

AD (simultaneously): And it taught you.

Mrs. Ybor: --understand, you know.

AD: You see--

Mrs. Ybor: Give you-- give me knowledge of God.

AD (simultaneously): Yes, but you see, the knowledge it gives you is real experience. Not words. You actually experience that one Idea.

Mrs. Ybor: Power! Power! [one/two inaudible AD words simultaneous with Mrs. Ybor] That is all there is, power.

AD: Well ultimately. But that power, that power and the power holder are one and the same. The One, alright--

Mrs. Ybor: Is-- and void have power. (laughs)

AD: Isn't that power unfathomable?

Mrs. Ybor: Oh!

AD: It's unfathomable, isn't it? Alright.

Mrs. Ybor: I was gasping. The whole universe was wiped away to leave that One alone. Oh! Thank God you were there. Oh. That is going to-- but I couldn't forget that (and) ever. That dark portal.

AD: They call that the adytium [sic; adytum] [adytum in Greek was the innermost sanctuary of a temple]. They call that the adytium.

Mrs. Ybor: Adytium?

AD: Adytium, let me spell it.

Mrs. Ybor: That is Sanskrit so I don't--

AD: No, Greek. [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Oh Greek.] It's also Sanskrit, yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: Adytum.

AD: That's the entrance into the One.

Mrs. Ybor: I haven't met the One yet?

AD: No, these are just-- these are just attributes. From the One, alright, there will be all these characteristics--power, voidness, alright, principle of Being, essences. All these are from the One.

Mrs. Ybor: But I have-- I have still to find the One?

AD: Well, you already are in the adytium. You're inside.

Mrs. Ybor: But this is not the One?

AD: It is the One, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor: There can't be anything else!

AD: It is the One. But it isn't--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): It's (attributes) only. And it's in me, you see, I was--

AD: Yes, well, it's in you.

Mrs. Ybor: I'm-- I'm that now, I'm nothing.

AD: Yes, it's in you.

Mrs. Ybor: But that's-- it can't be-- anything can't exist beyond that.

AD: Well, what exists beyond that is not in existence, is not existent.

Mrs. Ybor: As I was not existent today.

AD: That's--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): I finished by not being existent.

AD (simultaneously): That's the realm you're in. That whole realm, that whole realm, all this [diagram], all this is called non-Being, or beyond Being. And you're in it. There's no-- there's no limits to it.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. But I experienced non-Being before that came.

AD/S(?): Yes.

Mrs. Ybor: I was just air.

AD: But you weren't floating.

Mrs. Ybor: No.

AD: You-- it was like (solid) all the way to infinity. It wasn't that you were moving around in it.

Mrs. Ybor: Nothing was moving.

AD: Yeah. Yeah, you're in the adytium. You see, Mrs. Ybor, after the explosion, I knew you were going to be admitted into the adytium.

Mrs. Ybor: So that is what produced explosion.

AD: No, the explosion made it possible for you to-- it opened up the path for you to go there. All the bounds, all the limitations to your soul have now been removed.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh dear, I really-- Whoa, yeah. (laughs) Leaving me void, leaving me nothing (yet/yeah).

AD: But that's--

Mrs. Ybor: But the question give me learning.

AD: Yes but Mrs. Ybor, that's-- that's the marvelous thing about that. Because if-- if you apply that to the everyday world, and you see everything was void--

Mrs. Ybor: Uh-huh, it's a sad philosophy.

AD: No, no. It'll fill you with happiness and peace.

Mrs. Ybor: The voidness?

AD: Yeah. It's only in the beginning, it's only in the beginning that you feel a certain melancholy.

Mrs. Ybor: I had a-- it was a very happy beginning here, that I was just pure Mind and it was, oh, exquisitely beautiful. I was extremely happy until this happened.

AD: You know, Mrs. Ybor, without-- without meditating, sitting down, I was with PB, I went to Connecticut with PB, and he had to go visit someone so he told me if I would wait, so I was sitting outside waiting. And I was looking. And all of a sudden, everything became void. Everything, with my eyes wide open.

Mrs. Ybor: That came softly.

AD: Softly, very softly, quietly.

Mrs. Ybor: And--

AD: And then like the attachment--

Mrs. Ybor: But what-- Oh, that gave the understanding that all-- it's all illusions.

AD: Yeah. In one way everything is illusion.

Mrs. Ybor: But did that make you content?

AD: Well, it made me more detached and then the happiness and the peace and the contentment came. Because I was no longer [Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.] bound, you know. Like [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: Yeah.] my memories didn't crush me.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. Because all of that brings opposites.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: That brings in sorrow.

AD: So to see, to see and penetrate into the nature of something, and to see that in a sense it is empty, released me. [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: So--] That's the way the void came into me.

Mrs. Ybor: So, so-- it has come back?

AD: No, I had that only once. It lasted a long time. Then when I ca-- when PB came out he looked at me. He didn't say nothing, he just smiled. We got in the car and we went. But he knew what had happened. You see, that's the-- that's the effect of the void in us. It takes the--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): So in other words, the source of-- of everything is here in the Self.

AD: In the Self. You could call this [diagram], instead of calling this the One, you can call it the Self. You can call it the Self.

Mrs. Ybor: But-- but now really, I've become that. So then, now, am I united now with the One?

AD: Well, you were temporarily united. You were temporarily united. You have to remember what I told--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): How do we come back?

AD: You can't become permanent, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor: With what they call the union with the One, there's no--

AD (simultaneously): There is no such thing. It's only temporary, (see).

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): But today I was.

AD: Yes, but it's only temporary.

Mrs. Ybor: I was nothing but--

AD: But that, yes. But you see, that's why--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Not even a head.

AD: You see, that's why I don't use the word "union." What I use is the word "companionship with God."

Mrs. Ybor: Well, yogi means-- yogi means that what is yoked.

AD: That's bunk. Yeah. You see what I'm trying to tell you? That's bunk. You can become-- you can become very close friends to God. You can be a companion with God. You can enter into union with God.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Yeah but you can't be united with it.

AD: But you can't become God.

Mrs. Ybor: Of course not.

AD: But after a while what happens is the soul gets divine, divinized.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. But you see, we are so materialized.

AD: Yeah. But after a while you begin to see that the soul wants only the companionship of God. That's what you're talking about.

Mrs. Ybor: I mean, the direction of God.

AD: Yes, always under-- always under the influence of God.

Mrs. Ybor: That is (true).

AD: And-- and that you can call like a permanent friendship.

Mrs. Ybor: Yes, that is the truth.

AD: That's the truth, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Yeah. And you see also, when I went to bed, when-- when I started this way, oh I said, really this divinity is sheer goodness, the power. It forced me into itself away from all my thoughts (and the--/in me.) That-- the power, the way it catches me, just like my dear Eduardo would catch me in his arms, this divinity does the same.

AD: Exactly, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor: I feel it!

AD: Exactly. Exactly. It's like-- it's like when you're friends with God, it's like, do you remember when your Eduardo was always there, you always knew he was with you. But you can't become Eduardo. In other words, I want to taste sugar. I don't want to become sugar. You want to love God. You can't become God.

Mrs. Ybor: Of course not, that-- no, of course that is very clear the way I understood. But what is very difficult is the discussion of the void.

AD: Oh yes. That's one of the great problems in philosophy. But you see, Mrs. Ybor--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Of course you did-- at the same time though, nobody can take away for you your spiritual quality here.

AD: No, no, that's-- that-- that has to be there in order for you to have friendship with God. Oh yeah. After a while you'll understand what I say when I say the Hindus don't know how to write in English.

Mrs. Ybor: No.

AD: You have to remember, they're not English-speaking people. So they use words like "identity" when they mean friendship or companionship or permanent relationship with. Because I spoke to Hindus and I told them, do you know what you're talking about?

Mrs. Ybor: Then study old Nordic or Norse.

AD: Well, Mrs. Ybor, maybe in another life it'll be given to me to study a few things that I have-- I had to put aside in this life. There's a lot of things I wanted to study. I've given up the things that I like so much.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Remember, that is the root for all-- that's the root language. Oh, excuse me, now I can't (proceed).

AD (simultaneously): Oh, of course, alright, you go lay down.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah, I get-- yeah. And I-- I mean I-- am I going to go through any more of those experiences?

AD: You're going to have many, many more beautiful experiences, I'm quite sure.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): But not so formidable.

AD: No, they don't have to be that way. There's another one here which you experienced a long time ago. You remember the experience of sheer love, nothing but love, alright. Then you experience another one when you experienced it as pure happiness. Nothing but happiness. [S simultaneously: Right, yeah.] You couldn't be anything else. Those are all different aspects of One, what they call the One, or what they call the Self.

In other words, me, alright, I'm a father to my children. I'm a husband to my wife. I'm let's say a friend to certain people, I'm a teacher to others, but me always remains me. But I have different ways of relating.

Mrs. Ybor: I'm so tired.

AD: Go to sleep, honey, go to sleep, go rest. Go rest.

Mrs. Ybor: But I mean I'll listen. You don't think he's going to make me go through those violent experiences anymore.

AD: No I think-- I think he--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): He's wearing me out. I had to take heart pills this morning.

AD: Well now-- now you stop. You stop and rest. Try to be--

Mrs. Ybor: He doesn't let me, you see?

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: He kept--

AD: Yeah but, you-- you have to [one word inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): How can it join that? My idea of the deity is sheer love. And now I know from experience it's black voidness.

AD: It's voidness too. But you see, that's what I'm trying to point out, that the Self has all these aspects.

Mrs. Ybor: Well you got an awful lot of thinking to make that clear in your book, all this.

AD: Oh, Mrs. Ybor, that's one of the things that--

Mrs. Ybor: And you got no predecessor, no one to teach you.

AD: Well, Mrs. Ybor--

Mrs. Ybor: That's why I was thanking God last night when you take time to meditate, so then you really know what you're talking about.

AD: Well--

Mrs. Ybor: See, other philosophers had really no experience of God.

AD: Well, it is true, I often get help from very high powers when I meditate. I get that.

Mrs. Ybor: But, speaking of the other, especially the German philosophers, they had no idea, no comma-- direct knowledge of the deity.

AD (simultaneously): No, no, they didn't.

Mrs. Ybor: It was all idea-- book--

AD: Concepts, concepts. Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: So, I'm very glad you got time to-- But please, you hang-- you detached your telephone. Now I'm so worried to interrupt your meditation again.

AD: Oh don't worry about that.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): You disconnect the telephone.

AD: Don't worry about that, Mrs. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh yes, I wor-- I do.

AD: Don't worry about that.

Mrs. Ybor: Well-- And I took you away from the class.

AD: No, Avery's giving the class, I'm not giving the class. I'm just listening.

Mrs. Ybor: Well, so glad that you--

AD: I'll be around. I'll be around.

Mrs. Ybor: But now [one word inaudible] should I be content or should I desire even more?

AD: No, you should-- you should live in that voidness. Try to understand that voidness as a part of yourself.

Mrs. Ybor: But I mean, I should be satisfied that I-- that I've reached the maximum knowledge that I'm supposed to know. Well--

AD: You have reached, you have reached what I referred to before. I can even show it to you, what they call the voidness, the principle of voidness. And they got 18 different varieties and kinds. And the philosophers in the-- in Asia have spent thousands of years studying the different kinds of voidness and experiencing them.

Mrs. Ybor: No but I mean when-- when-- when we start this quest, haven't I got-- shouldn't I be satisfied with this as final answer to my quest?

AD: Yes, it is-- it is. It is. If you could only accept that this is as high as human beings can go. They cannot go any higher.

Mrs. Ybor: But I haven't reached that height.

AD: Well, this is what you're talking about now. Now this is the One [diagram], alright. And we say that it has all these different attributes, alright.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh you mean inside that portal?

AD: Yeah. It has all these different attributes.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh inside here.

AD: Uh-hm.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, well, these are inside.

AD: Uh-hm. Now, what-- what you-- If you think of-- if you think of this here as the Self [diagram], alright, [Mrs. Ybor assents] and you think of this as all the attributes of the Self [diagram], alright, well, this would be the Self as absolute. This would be all the metaphysical Ideas that come out-- come out of it. Now, if you think of this here, if you say that this was love, alright? Let's say this was power, alright? Let's say this was sheer existence, God's isness, alright? All these are metaphysical Ideas in the mind of the Self, in that pure Mind. One of the-- one of the Ideas is to experience all of the Ideas as pure voidness.

Mrs. Ybor: And power! As (sheer--)

AD (simultaneously): An-- yeah. Another--

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): In that power there is no room for existence [AD: Exactly.] or love or anything.

AD (simultaneously): Yes but-- yes. You see? You see what I'm talking about? In other words, when you experience of-- when you experience this whole circle as power [diagram]. [one inaudible Mrs. Ybor word simultaneous with AD] There's another time when you experience this whole circle as existence. There's another time when you experience this whole circle as love.

Mrs. Ybor: You interpret the circle as the void?

AD: As the Self.

Mrs. Ybor: As the Self. Not as-- not as this voidness.

AD: Look, the voidness-- the voidness is an aspect of the Self. You have experienced the Self. And you have also experienced the attributes, different metaphysical Ideas that are part of that Self. Yes I would be contented, Mrs. Ybor. As a matter of fact, I would put my gloves down and say I've done it.

S: Good.

Mrs. Ybor: Well I'm going to hoist the Norwegian flag, the Aryan flag.

AD: Well I told you, I wanted to buy the pole and put it up. Let me have the flag.

Mrs. Ybor: Before I die.

AD: Let me have the flag.

Mrs. Ybor: Oh, (that's--) No but, you see really, dear Master, it's very-- it's very convinced. I'm so convinced that there is a relationship between my country and God. Because my love for it is leading me up to it. There is a relationship.

AD: Yes. But Mrs. Ybor, there's another way of interpreting that relationship. You are grateful and love, lovingly grateful to your origins.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.

AD: That's another way of interpreting. Yes.

Mrs. Ybor: No and also because that origin, that country that the-- its history has inspired me, maximum human capacity of loving everything.

AD: Yes. Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: Everything in it. The climate, the people, the sea, everything was love, it was-- So-- so-- so if I [AD simultaneously: So is it?] ask to hoist the Norwegian flag, it is really what I truly feel. I'm indebted to Norway for my capacity of love (in/and) God of-- No that is absolutely sincere.

AD: I believe that, Mrs. Ybor. I understand that, too. I understand that. Because if that love wasn't there, it might-- you might have never taken off.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah.

AD: I understand. It's like-- it's like the love that you have for Norway in many ways would be like the love a man might have for a hero, which encourages him to reach out for the highest.

[tape break]

Session 2 (date unknown)

S: I think we're ready to go now.

[22¾ second pause]

Mrs. Ybor: Don't know where to begin, I-- Maybe I should start with that extraordinary experience. Yesterday afternoon, I felt-- I just-- well that experience, I don't remember. But at the end, at two o'clock, I felt so ill with a nausea. So I went to bed, and I slept, but I woke even more ill. So I called up doctor. I was worried. Then, lying in bed, I appealed to the-- to the deity. I say a prayer--"Come, divine spirit, and conquer my body. Let me forget my sick body." I was in a beautiful illuminated void. Then light came streaming down, and I was all light. Now that light went on increasing, increasing in intensity until I-- I became-- I became solid light. And I felt no more now, so I felt no more pain in the stomach.

So I thought, wait, I must call up the doctor not to come. And, I felt exhausted. He was going to come, of course, that-- and I looked. This has been lasting for two hours, from 2 to 4. And I was cured. And my guru came. Told him, I said I've been very ill. But, God came, manifested it with good thought in light. And I'm-- I'm all light, I'm just solid light. And I've got no more body, I've got no more pain. [student assents] Ok. That is the end of that.

And-- oh yes, doctor came, and he said yes, apparently you must have had a pocket of gas in your stomach, and the light healed it. [student assents] The doctor's word. Then he left and I-- I think I couldn't-- see, I couldn't take anything, I hadn't been eating or drinking the whole day. I couldn't take anything so I tried to sleep and I went to sleep. And I was awakened at two o'clock with these words: "You're going to go through tremendous experiences, but to you they will seem puny and pity because of your innocence." Not ignorance, but [S: Innocence.] innocence. [student assents, faint] "You are going to be seated on the throne of God." So of course, I couldn't sleep with that. I went up, left the bed, that was two in the morning. [short pause] Go on. I took some light tea but even that wasn't good. My stomach was still very sore. So I went to bed again and-- and wanted to meditate. Yeah.

So spontaneously I said, "Well, I am-- I am nothing but air, I'm pure air. Come fill me with thine divine spirit." [short pause] But then-- and it-- I-- I vanished. I was evaporated [student assents] in darkness, into darkness. I-- I became gradually-- and-- [short pause] I vanished gradually but in darkness, and strange, there were-- those black channels came down and remained in me. One after the other the black channels came down and remained in me. Finally, I was all darkness, then I see the upper sky also dark and came down and joined me. And we were just darkness. And I just could say I had no consciousness, I had no mind, but I-- it was little bit fearful. [student assents] So I said, well, now I'm in the hands of God. Thy will be done. [12 second pause] That is the end of that meditation and I went sleep again. But I thought that this-- I had been in the stage of pre-Genesis when all was darkness, before God said "Be light." That was my conclusion coming out of this. (Because/Of course) I was completely unconscious of course.

Then I slept and I awoke. And then this-- If I could find words, I don't know. I entered the stillness. And then a bliss took me to this power, but such a bliss that-- It-- it was a-- that super-divine felicity and bliss, superhuman. There are no words. I've experienced so much bliss. But this was sheer divine bliss. That was God itself within me, I thought. [short pause] You see [couple words inaudible] I was up there. [short pause] Oh, I forgot. Then I repeated, "I'm going to be seated on the throne of God." I was lifted up. I-- and I thought now, oh, "Reveal yourself to me. I want to see my God." I went up and up. Then, at a certain moment, I was-- I was stopped in the rise, and brought down a bit. And then something happened to me I could not explain. Something mysterious happened within me that moment I came down from (descent). Then I was brought down. And, I and the One appeared in the heart. And I was expanding. I was expanding more than usual. I felt even my arms. I was expanding (in depth) until I was nothing. [student assents] That's it. [11¼ second pause]

I was the void. I was infinitude (of) nothing. Oh, if I could remember. Such strange things went on within me. There are no words. Then, I was brought up halfway from the heart, and all the void was filled with the white light. But then-- then that void became clear void. And I-- I felt I-- my mind became also clear void. [student assents] It was just clear void everything and that is how I finished.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

S: That's it.

[tape break]

Mrs. Ybor: She was a-- And now, this is-- God is pure Mind. And I have become pure Mind. That's all.

S (faint): Uh-hm.

[tape break from 45 min 16.5 sec to 45 min 49.6 sec]

Session 3: October 15th

AD: Today is October 15, Thursday.

Mrs. Ybor: [one word inaudible] Remember the preceding, how they all indicated something?

AD: Yes.

Mrs. Ybor: The tremendous happening?

AD: Uh-hm.

Mrs. Ybor: And then-- then I can you reach the-- can reach the eighth. That we haven't solved yet.

AD (simultaneously): Yes, you remember, yeah. Well, I think it's solved, Mrs. Ybor. I think I-- [tape break] Now can you reach the eighth. And, the way I understand that, I understand that to mean is, can you reach now the unity of the seven which is the octave, the one.

Mrs. Ybor: (What I'm-- or) the cooperation of all the powers. Isn't it marvelous how they--

AD: Why don't-- why don't you tell me first the dream you had. Tell me the dream you had.

(Side 1 of original cassette tape digitized as 1981 1015a Ends; Side 2 Begins)

AD: --now. Now, this is October the 15th, Thursday, alright, and last night you had a dream and I'd like you to tell me the dream.

Mrs. Ybor: (laughs) Well, I feel bashful about it.

AD: No, no, it's a dream, Mr. Ybor.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): Well, I told somebody that I'm so glad I managed to have an abortus.

AD: Abortion.

Mrs. Ybor: Abortion.

AD: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: You see, I was pregnant. So, I'm not sure but I think I mounted on horseback to produce that abortion.

AD: The miscarriage.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And-- and-- and now I give-- now I've given birth to beautiful little son. I could even see him.

AD: And it made you very happy when you looked at him.

Mrs. Ybor: Made you very happy.

AD: Blissful. Uh-huh.

Mrs. Ybor: Then--

AD: Then in the morning you woke up.

Mrs. Ybor: I woke up and somebody told me to look up. And there, I see-- Well I imagine it was part of a circle because it was rounded. I think it was one-- one triangle of the ring of the-- of the-- or of Arctus. Arctus. And on that short of the bottom of the triangle, I forgot their name--

AD (simultaneously): Uh-hm. [one word inaudible]

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): --it was curved.

S: Yeah.

Mrs. Ybor: (Ok.) Inside that is printed in-- I'm sorry-- grayish white the figure of one extremely well-designed and heavy, heavy print. One very heavy print. Then two, same extremely well-designed and heavy print. And then three. I wanted to see if they would give the seven. But no the rest was-- rest must have been letters also in white in the same gray whitish light or color, but I could not read them. There were letters on the same line just a few because the line was short and below and above. And I-- as I could not even read what kind of letters, I believe they must have been runes, the earliest alphabet in my country. And that made me extremely curious and inspired me for meditation. Well, I started but I don't want to talk about that but, you see, I've got my handicaps. Or I cough too much, or I-- or I choke, and I woke. That suppression on the heart, I had to take some pills and tried to sleep again because I couldn't manage to-- to meditate.

Then again I woke. This time I decided to-- to feel well. (laughs) And-- and I started the silence and to achieve the-- I-- well, the remainder of the 18 voids I was supposed to achieve. So I started, but it was very exhausting, that stillness and annulling yourself, annulling all your concepts and the selfhood and the consciousness. And finally also to a void, to insist that I am nothing, I'm not even void, I'm just nothing. But at that point I got so exhausted I had to stop. Then I tried again at one o'clock. [short pause] I start again (that shines) about the stillness.

And now it was very easy. I rose very quickly into absolute voidness and nothingness. I was not even void. I was just nothing. But that was a very tense moment. It was hard to keep that-- being a non-entity, being nothing, (just a--) So I hoped something would happen and it didn't-- did. Some light came from the-- from my left right into my head, and illuminated my head beautifully and illuminated the void and the universe very brilliantly. Ah, I said, that is Atma. Then it rose up and I was lifted up, and the light went up, up, up, up to the zenith, and there, and there, there came the One. It was-- oh I have forgotten about the different lights. It wasn't very yellow like I'm accustomed to. It was more whitish yellow. But the One was stronger light than Atman. But still, it wasn't that strong yellow yellow I'm accustomed to. And that-- that one intensified the illumination of the universe and on me and went down to the heart. And from the heart-- and the heart became the center of illumination. But from the heart it went up to the brain also, and then back again. So I said, now, Atman and Brahman forms one. And with a strong illumination, oh, and a joy, I forgot the joy of course. First when Atman comes, when my nothingness became alleviated with the presence of light, when the-- a felicity undescribable reached me or filled me, I was all happiness. And the happiness increased when I reached the One, and-- and we became the power of the universe and light and felicity and bliss. Well, I want to try to keep all these superlatives to the next meditation because you see, I was so tired by now, it had lasted for two hours, this.

So, I stopped. I couldn't anymore. And I took-- I want to drink a cup of coffee, but no, the deity didn't leave me because hadn't finished the business. So I had to leave my coffee and get back. Oh, I then-- I shot right up to the One. (And then) a power I had never experienced before. A glorious power, a glory power all over the universe, and again down to my brain, to my head. [short pause] And then up again.

And, my felicity is just indescribable. The joy, the glory of that illumination of the two, Atman and Brahman, is a-- It's absolute goodness, it's absolute beauty, absolute power. It's everything absolute, superlative, of what we consider good, of all activity of-- [AD simultaneously: Of course.] of the deity. It-- And it lasted so long, this. It-- And then, expand. By this time it had gone down to the heart too. And then the light came to the heart, at the same time became the center illumination, and the brain, another second center, and then the one up there. And those three together I said, and if this isn't the One. And that the whole universe was not only light, but the same-- my experience of beauty, of glory, of happiness, of joy, of admiration filled the whole world, I was astounded. Then the whole world is happy as I am. They experience these deities, deities' goodness all over. My state of joy, of exuberation was filling the whole universe.

S: Uh-huh, was-- Go ahead.

Mrs. Ybor: Well I think--

AD: And you were that? You felt that you were that.

Mrs. Ybor: More my dear guru. I didn't dare to pronounce it but I felt I was God.

AD: Yes, yes. You would've been.

Mrs. Ybor: I didn't dare. I was God. Yeah. And of course that made me weep after having enjoyed such happiness. Made me-- made me weep. That was too much, yeah. And it's-- it's--

Of course, I ask myself well now, the world doesn't know how happy it is over this marvelous deity that rules everything and it's [one word inaudible] or that is the important thing. They don't realize that they have to renounce to the ego, to the personality, to give place to this mighty power of happiness, of joy, of intelligence. That is the point, you have to just sacrifice the personality to give room for this-- [couple inaudible AD words simultaneous with Mrs. Ybor] this divine power. And then you'll feel that happiness that it gives to you because you are-- you can happen as-- you're part of me and we all experience that same beauty and happiness because I had reached that void, that nothingness. So now I say well, that is your role, to proclaim this glory and-- and preach-- and preach renunciation of your-- of your [AD simultaneously: Ego. Yes.] ego and your personality to give room to this, this divine, divine, divine, this adorable, adorable [one word inaudible] Adorable.

AD (very quietly): That's very good, Mrs. Ybor, that's very good.

Mrs. Ybor: Adorable. In me. And in the void and they don't know it!

AD: That's what the Hindus mean by ignorance. It's what they mean by ignorance. We are ignorant of who and what we are. Yes.

Mrs. Ybor: Thank you, Master.

AD: No, thank you [one word inaudible] please.

Mrs. Ybor: Yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: Don't-- [tape break] I think we might-- we might say that you-- possibly we might say that you experienced the three Hypostases and also their integrity as one Hypostasis. I think we can say that.

Mrs. Ybor (simultaneously): And-- and those three figures, 1, 2, 3, that were showed to me in vision this morning indicate that--

AD (simultaneously): Right, were pointing to that ex--

Mrs. Ybor: That is extraordinary, that all my great experience are--

AD: Prefigured.

Mrs. Ybor: --are foretold, [AD simultaneously: Yeah, in--] yeah, in my-- in my dreams and in my visions [AD: Yes.] automatically, every one. Is that true?

AD: Yes, that's, that's--

Mrs. Ybor: Every one.

AD: It's like the mind prepares you or is [Mrs. Ybor simultaneously: It's--] giving you a hint as to what--

Mrs. Ybor: It's a collaboration of all the gods and all the powers to help me. And that's what I want-- the message I want to give to your students, that if the deity finds they are sincere really and could-- it-- they are helped as I have been helped in every, every way in the smallest detail. I feel the deity wants me to reach the-- reach It.

AD: Uh-hm. We got it down, Mrs. Ybor, we got--

[Audio File 1981 1015a Ends]